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Old 12-23-2016, 10:29 PM   #41
JohnAKeith
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Remember when residential housing was considered an important part of any Seaport future?
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:42 AM   #42
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Whighlander, the Massport parking lot on Northern Ave is slated for development http://www.archboston.org/community/...7&postcount=24

Re-reading the post I linked, I just noticed that this project has greatly reduced parking on site due to the development of the South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center garage.
Parking Change at Parcel K

The underground garage has been redesigned to reduce the
parking from 640 striped parking spaces on three levels, to a maximum of 420 parking spaces on one level. An initial 197 striped parking spaces will be provided on the single parking level, with the Proponent having the ability, at its sole election, to increase the capacity of the garage to a maximum of 420 parking spaces through the installation of mechanical car-stacking machinery and/or through managed valet operations upon the Proponentís determination that an increase is necessary to accommodate the needs of the Project or the CFDA. The Projectís Traffic Engineer has evaluated the current and proposed parking, and determined that the reduced parking is sufficient for the Project. Additional parking for the CFDA is being created through Massportís South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center.
This must significantly reduce the cost of foundational digging and prep - plans changed from a 3 level underground garage to 1. This should also speed up the construction schedule once Parcel K breaks ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whighlander View Post
TYSmith -- I don't think it has anything to do with Logan

Massport is in the advanced planning stages for 5,000 more spaces on the airport property

In case you didn't notice on Google Map Massport has an enormous Parking lot on Northern Ave which is a prime developable property
https://goo.gl/maps/tZqQgQJ2sdJ2
And quite close in the opposite direction from the main core of the Seaport District There are a number of venues where people might want to go and which don't today have very good transit access including:
  • the really booming Cruise Port Boston
  • the equally booming Boston Innovation Center / Boston Design Center / Reebok HQ complex,
  • Ray Flynn Business Park
  • numerous other developments in the pipeline in that direction including office space and hotels
Finally there will be more hotels associated with the BCEC


-- all of these [many on Massport property] are a medium walk or a short shuttle bus ride away from the site of the Massport garage
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:51 AM   #43
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAKeith View Post
Remember when residential housing was considered an important part of any Seaport future?
What about it? There are hundreds (thousands?) of units coming online with more in the pipeline.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:34 PM   #44
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAKeith View Post
Remember when residential housing was considered an important part of any Seaport future?
JohnAKeith -- the way I remember it -- due to Southey political pressure -- there was a cap put on residential housing to be developed in the Seaport

It seems that Southey didn't want its voting power*1 diluted by DINKs and higher economic strata types likely to populate upscale housing in the Seaport. The fear was that the block of newcomers were not of the traditional Southey Blue Collar background and hence were less likely to vote for somebody named O'Malley or Harrigan


*1 traditionally one of the most politically active neighborhoods with the highest % registration and % turn-out at elections
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:58 PM   #45
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
What about it? There are hundreds (thousands?) of units coming online with more in the pipeline.
It's thousands...
- 850 units at Benjamin & Via (aka Seaport Square)
- 304 units at Parcel K
- 733 units at Block M
- 120 units at 50 Liberty at Fan Pier
- 312 units at Waterside Place Phase 1B (2nd tower)

I'm missing several projects, but those alone add up to 2,300+.
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Old 12-27-2016, 03:18 PM   #46
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

^^^ Add to the above 2317 the following:
Constructed:
Park Lane Seaport 465
411D (lofts) 197
22 Liberty 118
Watermark 346
100 Pier 4 369
Waterside Place 1A 235
319A Street Rear 202
= 1972

Also Under construction:
Residence @ Pier 4 100
338 Congress 9
= 109

Approved:
399 Congress Str 414
150 Seaport 124
= 538

For a total of: 2579 + the 2317 ='s 4896 Seaport units.

This does not include a lot of housing units (new and conversions) in the Chanel Center, Fort Point district or the condo bldg. next to 411D. I think we are over the 5000 unit level.
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Old 12-27-2016, 04:59 PM   #47
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeLine View Post
^^^ Add to the above 2317 the following:
...

I think we are over the 5000 unit level.
Thanks BeeLine.

I don't mean to derail this thread topic any further, but the numbers are pretty exciting. From the 2010 Census, the South Boston Waterfront neighborhood only had 1,028 occupied housing units and 1,889 residents. Assuming the neighborhood's make-up adjusts closer to Boston's average household size (lets call it 2 per household... the city was 2.26 in the last census), that means the neighborhood could be looking at 10,000 residents by 2020... 4.29 times more residents than 10 years earlier.

From a density standpoint, the neighborhood's heading for 30,000 residents/sq. mile... more than twice the city's average population density (~14,000) and even higher than New York City's average population density (28,000). Say what you will about the Seaport housing, that is a major milestone.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:17 PM   #48
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

I see the point--very exciting, but I would think it safer to assume that HH size stays at 1.8 or 1.9 per-- these are prosperous post-graduate office-oriented professionals, and not as likely to add kids as the rest of the city.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:05 PM   #49
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
I see the point--very exciting, but I would think it safer to assume that HH size stays at 1.8 or 1.9 per-- these are prosperous post-graduate office-oriented professionals, and not as likely to add kids as the rest of the city.
Having worked in brokerage for several years, the lions' share of people I worked with sweeping up 1-bedrooms in luxury buildings like the seaport's are DINKS (Double Income, No Kids). And given the number of 2-bed and 3-bedroom units coming to the neighborhood, I thought it was safer to aim for 2. But you may be right. We won't officially know until the 2020 census results arrive... and I'm pretty confident those numbers will drop a lot of jaws across the country.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:02 PM   #50
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by whighlander View Post
JohnAKeith -- the way I remember it -- due to Southey political pressure -- there was a cap put on residential housing to be developed in the Seaport

It seems that Southey didn't want its voting power*1 diluted by DINKs and higher economic strata types likely to populate upscale housing in the Seaport. The fear was that the block of newcomers were not of the traditional Southey Blue Collar background and hence were less likely to vote for somebody named O'Malley or Harrigan
But what about the infill that has been coming online and is in the pipeline over the next few years in traditional South Boston itself. I would have to guess several thousand units if not more, maybe up to five thousand housing units? And mostly occupied by upper income millennials.
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:41 PM   #51
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

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Originally Posted by atlantaden View Post
But what about the infill that has been coming online and is in the pipeline over the next few years in traditional South Boston itself. I would have to guess several thousand units if not more, maybe up to five thousand housing units? And mostly occupied by upper income millennials.
Using the BRA's site I did a quick tally: Remember they only list the large projects.

Completed: 120 (within the last 6 months)
Approved: 1232
Under Construction: 640
Proposed: 120

Total: 2142

There are a lot of small projects in progress, but I would guess that they would only add another 100 to 150 units to the above total.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:34 PM   #52
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

My point wasn't the "thousands" it was the square footage. I'll pull some numbers but it appears there's no argument to be made.

PS. None but 1 or 2 of those "thousands" proposed or approved will be built.

See you at the Parcel K ground-breaking!
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:46 AM   #53
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

"Southey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by whighlander View Post
JohnAKeith -- the way I remember it -- due to Southey political pressure -- there was a cap put on residential housing to be developed in the Seaport
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:47 AM   #54
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAKeith View Post
My point wasn't the "thousands" it was the square footage. I'll pull some numbers but it appears there's no argument to be made.

PS. None but 1 or 2 of those "thousands" proposed or approved will be built.

See you at the Parcel K ground-breaking!
I'm confused. Which do you think will not be built? Many of the ones listed are already underway (whether it be permitting or further into construction). Are you only referring to Parcel K and 399 Congress?
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:35 AM   #55
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Responding in other thread ...
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:25 PM   #56
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Aieee!



by JohnAKeith, on Flickr
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:27 PM   #57
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

PS. Regarding the tally above, 5,000 units of housing for a "neighborhood" of this size won't be enough to bring in any amenities, which is what people wanted. Even with all the proposed projects being built, by 2019 we'll still see under 7,500 units, which translates to 10,500 - 15,000 people, far below what you need for a supermarket, etc.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:38 PM   #58
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

But John - there's still plenty of housing in Fort Point as well - I don't know the numbers but a supermarket in the seaport would be used by more than just the residents of the brand new buildings...
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:10 PM   #59
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

There's not, really. Well under 1,000 units.

I'll let you have the last word if you want ...
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:10 PM   #60
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Re: SBWTC /South Boston Waterfront Transportation Center/Seaport/ S Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAKeith View Post
Remember when residential housing was considered an important part of any Seaport future?
Yes.

There are just under 6,000 residential units built, approved and under way in the Seaport today. That number includes 1,250 units existing in Fort Point.

These numbers are somewhat meaningless in the context of Seaport's scale. It's like considering the impact of Chinatown housing on the North End.

http://fortpointer.com/images/seaport_TOD.jpg

What matters is density. Residents per acre.

Disappointed (but not surprised based on the passage of time) that there's little discussion of Seaport planning history. Views regarding the critical importance of residential density were registered during that period by nearly all engaged urban planners (i.e. Coopers Robertson, Urban Strategies, Thompson Design Partners, BSA Seaport Focus Team, etc.).

Disappointed (but not surprised based on the passage of time) that there's little awareness here of the years of (profit-centric) tinkering with Seaport Master Plans (via PDA amendments at Fan Pier, Pier 4, Seaport Square, etc.) which have moved the district toward being a hodgepodge of uses, with little consideration of the residential density and amenities necessary to see a neighborhood evolve.

And when I use the phrase "profit-centric" above that's directed at BPDA/BRA for failing to meet the agency's own (stated) responsibility toward "value capture" during PDA approvals of large Master Plans at Pier 4, Seaport Square and Fan Pier. State and federal public investment in the Seaport exceeded $8 billion, and that raised land values. Upwards of $500M in profit has been siphoned from the Seaport in the past decade, in the flipping of permits without putting a shovel in the ground. Yet it was too onerous on landowners for BPDA to impose housing demands, call for basic neighborhood amenities and a foundation of civic uses?

What's also staggering is Massport's failure to consider walk-to-work housing as a component of effective Seaport transit management. Massport has created office space for over 25,000 workers (e.g. commuters) and only 1,000 housing units.

As for whighlander's memory of Southie political pressure, we're a decade past the era when that was a major factor. Will Seaport Square, approved in 2010 with 2,500 units, see 2,500 units? Will the Fort Point 100 Acres Plan, approved in 2006, ever see 2,500-5,000 residential units given the number of potshots that have been taken at the Plan since its approval?

Apologies in advance for my attitude. I've been raising these issues along with others for 20 years.

Last edited by Sicilian; 01-02-2017 at 08:28 PM.
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