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Old 10-14-2016, 08:16 AM   #21
Suffolk 83
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston



Villa Victoria tower south end (right side of picture)
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:00 AM   #22
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

That is 'out of scale for the neighborhood.'
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:48 AM   #23
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Villa Victoria tower south end (right side of picture)
Is Villa Victoria actually public housing though? I thought it was non-profit section 8.
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:04 PM   #24
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Is Villa Victoria actually public housing though? I thought it was non-profit section 8.
It is privately owned. It gets rental subsidy under HUD Section 236, not Section 8. From a layperson's or tenant's perspective, not a huge difference between the two subsidy programs.

I am pretty certain the construction (of low-rises) and rehab (of high-rise) was supported by low income housing tax credits. So the owner entity (or entities if it's in phases) would be for-profit by definition, to pass the credits through to the LIHTC investors. The general partner of the owners is a non-profit, Inquilinos Boricuas en Acción, so it's right to say it's controlled by a non-profit, if not precisely correct to say it's owned by a non-profit.
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Old 10-14-2016, 12:14 PM   #25
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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It is privately owned. It gets rental subsidy under HUD Section 236, not Section 8. From a layperson's or tenant's perspective, not a huge difference between the two subsidy programs.

I am pretty certain the construction (of low-rises) and rehab (of high-rise) was supported by low income housing tax credits. So the owner entity (or entities if it's in phases) would be for-profit by definition, to pass the credits through to the LIHTC investors. The general partner of the owners is a non-profit, Inquilinos Boricuas en Acción, so it's right to say it's controlled by a non-profit, if not precisely correct to say it's owned by a non-profit.
Fair enough - I guess my examples aren't that far off base then, either.
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:11 PM   #26
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

not Boston, strictly speaking, but Clarendon Hill Towers in Somerville springs to mind. Although I don't know that it's "public housing" -- possibly just low-income.
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Old 10-15-2016, 03:10 PM   #27
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

I'm curious to know how many standing high rises in Boston used to be public housing and were converted to luxury or middle-income.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:41 PM   #28
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

426 of 501 of Clarendon Hill tower's units are affordable. They are commonly mistaken for housing projects because of their, boring, identical high rise design and because of the confusion between them and the nearby housing project Clarendon Hill Apts.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:15 PM   #29
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

As a South End resident, it's notable from the crime blotter how much more crime originates from the Villa Victoria tower as opposed to the smaller low income housing blocks scattered throughout (eg Methunion Manor). A tangential connection to low income housing
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:32 PM   #30
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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426 of 501 of Clarendon Hill tower's units are affordable. They are commonly mistaken for housing projects because of their, boring, identical high rise design and because of the confusion between them and the nearby housing project Clarendon Hill Apts.
ah, got it. thanks for the info
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:25 AM   #31
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

Why do humans respond negatively to living in high-rises, or at least low-income ones? And why can old people live in high-rises without any problems? There are so many senior citizens towers around the area.
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Old 03-29-2017, 11:58 AM   #32
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Why do humans respond negatively to living in high-rises, or at least low-income ones? And why can old people live in high-rises without any problems? There are so many senior citizens towers around the area.
I think its more a concentration/density of poverty that happens in the building - projects don't work, but mixed incoming housing seems to be OK. Just like a full luxury tower - except then the wealthy just become more separated from normal life
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:27 PM   #33
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Why do humans respond negatively to living in high-rises, or at least low-income ones? And why can old people live in high-rises without any problems? There are so many senior citizens towers around the area.
I also believe that low income developments have always been looked down upon, high rise or not. Mixed income communities work, low income ones do not. Low income developments are ghettos built by the goverment.

And i'm flattered by my description of Trump's penthouse being used as your signature!
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Old 03-29-2017, 03:02 PM   #34
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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I also believe that low income developments have always been looked down upon, high rise or not. Mixed income communities work, low income ones do not. Low income developments are ghettos built by the goverment.

And i'm flattered by my description of Trump's penthouse being used as your signature!
It seems like many high-rises were torn down while low rises were left or "modernized".

And about the signature, yes, your quote is a perfect description of Trump's idea of good architecture.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:19 PM   #35
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Why do humans respond negatively to living in high-rises, or at least low-income ones? And why can old people live in high-rises without any problems? There are so many senior citizens towers around the area.
Hard to effectively police and you're concentrating quality of life issues.

I would imagine other old people aren't very likely to rob you in the windowless hallway of your apartment building, and aren't likely to be up at 3AM holding a loud party either.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:33 PM   #36
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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Why do humans respond negatively to living in high-rises, or at least low-income ones? And why can old people live in high-rises without any problems? There are so many senior citizens towers around the area.
Chronic disinvestment & underfunding by city, state & federal governments leads the buildings to become decrepit, especially the elevators & other various mechanical systems.

Lawrence O'Donnell has been at the forefront of documenting the challenges public housing tower residents face with great segments about NYC housing (NYCHA), especially during the election.

Lawrence tours "The Hidden City:" http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/w...y-665617475875

Interview with resident & NYC D15 Councilman Richie Torres: http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/w...g-665617475961
(Tragic story of a person who died on a stretcher in an elevator that got stuck. Elevators in public housing towers are really among the worst problems.)

Also from when Hillary visited public housing: http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/w...t-667231299600
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:25 PM   #37
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

A close friend worked at the DC Housing Authority and NYCHA for several years. His thoughts on this question were:

1) Inability to kick out criminal tenants makes it very hard to keep projects safe. Much of this is due to public housing, despite long waiting lists, not having the normal ability to evict unsavory tenants.

2) The Brooke Amendment - this limited rent to 1/3 of income and banned kicking tenants out for nonpayment of rent if they were too poor to pay. This is the key the lack of maintenance. Remember that many public housing recipients make money in the gray economy and their income doesn't appear on tax forms. This lowers their rent substantially. Once a project is built, the maintenance could be covered by low rents ~ several hundred dollars a month for a couple bedrooms. This would make the projects self sustaining once built. After the late 60s and the Brooke Amendment, this became impossible. In an alternate reality, public housing is well maintained from the working poor paying needed rents.

3) The late 60s - early 90s crime wave + disinvestment + flight of urban industrial jobs. Public housing even well into the 70s was quite stable in many cities. Points 1 and 2 made the system unstable for the long haul once buffetted by external factors.
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:52 PM   #38
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

It seems like the issue with towers is that they have a lot of interior public space that can't be self-patrolled, whereas with low-rise buildings (assuming apartments all have entrances from the outside, rather than interior hallways), the public space is outside, meaning that people looking to cause trouble can't easily hide. With hallways, elevators, and stairwells, it's easy to be cornered with no way out, and in a place where no one can see you.
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:04 PM   #39
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

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It seems like the issue with towers is that they have a lot of interior public space that can't be self-patrolled, whereas with low-rise buildings (assuming apartments all have entrances from the outside, rather than interior hallways), the public space is outside, meaning that people looking to cause trouble can't easily hide. With hallways, elevators, and stairwells, it's easy to be cornered with no way out, and in a place where no one can see you.
I think another problem was the exterior spaces and the problems that the cruciform design invoked (i.e you could get mugged or something in one of the corners where no one could see you and the police couldn't enter a project because of the dangers of sniperfire) as in these projects
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:27 PM   #40
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Re: High Rise Public Housing In Boston

Bad as the disinvestment was that's too easy a scapegoat. Ultimately it's people who created the public housing pathology not the buildings.
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