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Old 01-08-2018, 06:00 PM   #101
stellarfun
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

The curtain wall is apparently peeling away, creating a fire hazard.

https://www.dezeen.com/2017/12/20/si...el-architects/

Its unclear. to me anyway, why Millennium is now suing its construction consultant on the curtainwall

"Dezeen contacted Millennium Partners for comment but is yet to receive a response. But the company has recently taken up the issue of wall problems with Texas-based cladding consultant behind the building Curtainwall Design Consulting – it filed a lawsuit against the firm last month."
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:07 AM   #102
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
The curtain wall is apparently peeling away, creating a fire hazard.

https://www.dezeen.com/2017/12/20/si...el-architects/

Its unclear. to me anyway, why Millennium is now suing its construction consultant on the curtainwall

"Dezeen contacted Millennium Partners for comment but is yet to receive a response. But the company has recently taken up the issue of wall problems with Texas-based cladding consultant behind the building Curtainwall Design Consulting – it filed a lawsuit against the firm last month."
There suing to pretend they are not at fault and trying to create that there are more groups at fault besides the developer. But seriously in the end Millennium Partners is responsible for building this Piece of SHIT.
Maybe San Fran taxpaying citizens can pony up 200Million to fix the building.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:08 AM   #103
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

Original construction cost: $350 million.

Potential cost to fix: $500 million.

One proposal is to micropile to bedrock support for the half that's sinking the most, then wait and let the remaining half sink to that level.

https://sf.curbed.com/2018/4/16/1724...-san-francisco
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:52 AM   #104
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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One proposal is to micropile to bedrock support for the half that's sinking the most, then wait and let the remaining half sink to that level.

Has this process ever been attempted before? Pre-existing building to micropile to the bedrock?
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:44 PM   #105
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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Has this process ever been attempted before? Pre-existing building to micropile to the bedrock?
I have seen them micro-pile existing bridge abutments to bedrock, when re-building the bridge as a proverbial brick outhouse. But they were working with a flat horizontal plane, not one that is sinking and tilting. If one micropiles the 10 percent of the foundation where it has sunk the most, does one wait years before the remaining 90 percent sinks to the level of the 10 percent that was micro-piled first?
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:45 AM   #107
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

I wonder how often collapses like this happen in Mexico City, given its rather precarious location in an old lakebed. The whole municipality is rife with subsidence.

Perhaps this is just getting more attention because it's a newer structure?
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:21 AM   #108
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

Last night’s “60 Minutes” program -
“Since our story first aired last fall, engineers have begun drilling beneath the Millennium Tower. They're testing a proposed fix for the tilting building, one that would extend the existing foundation all the way to, you guessed it, bedrock. There is still no agreement on who will pay for the fix.”
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:32 AM   #109
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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Last night’s “60 Minutes” program -
“Since our story first aired last fall, engineers have begun drilling beneath the Millennium Tower. They're testing a proposed fix for the tilting building, one that would extend the existing foundation all the way to, you guessed it, bedrock. There is still no agreement on who will pay for the fix.”
When it comes to quality design/engineering, yet another case of: pay up now, or pay much, much more later.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:06 AM   #110
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

This one just continues to unfold...

Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Inspectors have issued a violation to management of a sinking condominium building after a large crack formed in a 36th-floor window of the building that has been dubbed the Leaning Tower of San Francisco.

On Tuesday it was reported that Millennium Tower residents heard creaking sounds, then a popping noise around 2:30 a.m. Saturday.

A homeowner found the crack in a window of his unit at the corner of the 58-story high-rise.
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/...wer/1420838363
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:36 AM   #111
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

They can do seismic modeling on that building in its current condition and figure how it would react to an earthquake, right?
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:01 AM   #112
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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They can do seismic modeling on that building in its current condition and figure how it would react to an earthquake, right?
I wouldn’t trust anybody scientific data or certified inspection sticker.

This building is a lemon—get out now-
This is common sense
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:34 AM   #113
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

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They can do seismic modeling on that building in its current condition and figure how it would react to an earthquake, right?
I believe they have, and have concluded that the present lean does not pose a risk of catastrophic failure.

The window that failed is on the NW side, the side where the lean is occurring; i.e., the building is tipping toward the NW at the same time that entire building is sinking.

The Fire Department was concerned several years ago that in an earthquake, the elevators might become so out of plumb that they would be inoperable. I don't recall reading at what point the tilt would be such that elevators would jam. If it reached that point of course, the certificate of occupancy would be pulled.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:59 PM   #114
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

The current seismic standard in SF says something like buildings must have a 90% probability of retaining structural integrity in a very large earthquake.

i.e. 10% of the buildings fall down. Reasonable to expect that this will be one of them.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:33 PM   #115
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

I guess my question was, does the technology exist to render the building in CAD in it's current state and subject that CAD model to a 'virtual' earthquakes and see how it fares?

If possible, that seems like a fairly prudent way of determine if the building should be deemed uninhabitable.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:06 PM   #116
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

Understood.

I don' have specific professional insight, but: My guess is that the answer is probably "yes, it can be modeled pretty easily, but the problem is that there are so many complex uncertainties that the range of outcomes would be un-usefully large. Especially if the intent would be to use the output in the inevitable litigation that would have to take place in order to kick people out of the building.

Sort of like modeling a hurricane 10 days out. It can be done, but its so sensitive to the micro-specifics of initial conditions that it can only give you a directional / probabilistic insight.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:24 PM   #117
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

OK, that makes sense.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:15 PM   #118
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

Quote:
Originally Posted by statler View Post
I guess my question was, does the technology exist to render the building in CAD in it's current state and subject that CAD model to a 'virtual' earthquakes and see how it fares?

If possible, that seems like a fairly prudent way of determine if the building should be deemed uninhabitable.
Structural & seismic modeling concerns the actual loads on the members, rather than the condition of the members themselves, so they'd have to calculate how much the members have been weakened and if the strength weakening is lateral or axial. Earthquakes are a lateral force. They should have the original models from the design phase and then be able to tweak the numbers based on the weakened members, though it will be difficult to assess just how weakened they are.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:16 AM   #119
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

City has sent structural engineers to inspect, and asked for a report by Millennium by COB Sept 7 on whether this crack in the glass is related to the curtain wall peeling away. Protective scaffolding being installed on the sidewalk.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...f-13211071.php
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:16 AM   #120
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Re: San Francisco high-rise sinking, tilting

I'm thinking Logically that any building that does not have a proper foundation is most likely at risk during a major earthquake never mind buildings that actually have solid foundations.

The Building is a death trap for the tenants living there if a catastrophic event hit.. (Good Luck)

At this point the developer of the building is responsible for this.

Last edited by TheRifleman; 09-07-2018 at 08:43 AM.
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