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Old 02-08-2016, 09:57 AM   #41
F-Line to Dudley
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

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Originally Posted by tocoto View Post
The side of the parcel that is most inland looks to have a pretty flat, at grade crossing at what appears to be an unused street. It seems like there is plenty of sufficiently flat land in the area if the owners wanted to fund something. It might take more cooperation among property owners than Wynn working alone and is probably just an expensive pipe dream, but it does look possible.
No...it isn't possible.

1. The bridge has a superelevated blind curve on the Somerville side that leaves obstructed sightlines for trains coming over the curve.

2. Everett Terminal is a freight clearance route, meaning it cannot have full-high platforms. Lows w/ 1-car mini-highs only. The embankment doesn't flatten out to throw down an interlocking for a passing track until you're behind the T bus shops and have overshot the casino.

3. The bridge is a notorious spot for freight engine stalls trying to accelerate fully-loaded cars over the summit.


Low platforms don't provide adequate safety for keeping passengers out of the track area, where the bridge is an inviting vista. This is a big problem when the obstructed sightlines give the engineer on an outbound trip inadequate braking distance on the downgrade to stop if they catch somebody in the track area coming off the summit. Both Newburyport/Rockport trains and the twice-daily freights have this problem. For a freight that stalls at the bridge summit on the inbound trip, the train will roll backwards for a handful of feet before the emergency brakes on all cars lock; the rear cars will still be passing through the platform at the time they stall and lurch backwards...blind to the engineer.

The ex-grade crossing has no bearing on it. That was a private, limited-liability crossing for Monsato's driveway that was grandfathered when the new bridge replaced the old flat, low-clearance drawbridge. Monsato closed 2 years after the new bridge opened. The crossing has been closed to all but T maint vehicles ever since.



Directly behind the T bus shops is also no-go for station siting because of the direct-abutting terminating electrical towers where the overhead power lines that follow the Eastern Route points outbound get brought down to ground/underground level and run across the street to the power plant. High-security exclusion zone. Far side of the bus shops is Everett Jct., where the freight tracks diverge from the mainline.

That leaves the closest permissible, non-blocked station site at: behind the brewery building, at Santilli Circle a full half-mile from the casino front door and almost as far a walk as from Sullivan.


There is no fudging around the edges and calling it "good enough". There's no DMU solution that will suffice, because all manner of common-carrier traffic has to go through that spot and the freights pose the biggest safety risk. It's too many degrees vulnerable a spot for the FRA to grant approval to construct a station platform there. You are not going to re-grade the entire rail embankment or relocate the electrical towers, either, because underneath the railbed and bus shops rear parking lot are just as contaminated with Monsato runoff as all the other adjacent parcels were (but as long as it's not disturbed it's capped in those spots).


There simply will not be a commuter rail station at the casino's front door, no matter how many "yeah, but..." and "what if..." regurgitations ask the same question as if a different calendar month is going to make a difference. Notice, conspicuously, that Wynn himself isn't proposing a commuter rail station. New Balance proposed and funded one. That developer building the apartment tower on the abandoned slice of the GE Plant in Lynn is proposing it and offering to fund it. Wynn's got the resources and arm-twisting acumen to make that happen if he wanted it to.

He isn't proposing a CR stop there because he can't. He got the bad news on physical feasibility long before it ever had the chance to sneak onto a single published render. There will not be a rail stop at the casino until you get the Urban Ring built alongside on a mode that doesn't have to self-correct for freight train braking distance off a steep blind grade.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:43 AM   #42
Cortes
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

^+1. Well spoken. Your username is earned.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:44 AM   #43
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

^^^thanks for the details
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:19 PM   #44
whighlander
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
No...it isn't possible.

...Notice, conspicuously, that Wynn himself isn't proposing a commuter rail station. New Balance proposed and funded one. That developer building the apartment tower on the abandoned slice of the GE Plant in Lynn is proposing it and offering to fund it. Wynn's got the resources and arm-twisting acumen to make that happen if he wanted it to.

He isn't proposing a CR stop there because he can't. He got the bad news on physical feasibility long before it ever had the chance to sneak onto a single published render. There will not be a rail stop at the casino until you get the Urban Ring built alongside on a mode that doesn't have to self-correct for freight train braking distance off a steep blind grade.
FLine -- I'm sure you don't care about my opinion -- Thanks -- that was a very thorough analysis of the CR potential for the Wynn Complex -- this is the kind of post where you shine the brightest
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:09 AM   #45
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Why not a Monorail built from future Casino to Seaport right above the Ocean.
Wynn contributes 30%
Taxpayers 50%
Monsanto 20% Fine for polluting the land in the first place.

This would help
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:33 AM   #46
citylover94
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

No because a monorail would not operate any better than a shuttle bus would they are more of a tourist attraction than anything else. If someone is gonna spend that much money it would be better to do light rail or just run busses.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:02 AM   #47
TheRifleman
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

What is light rail? Silver, Green?

I still have not heard of anybody actually doing a traffic study concerning this development.

The most informative post is F-Line for Dudley concerning what we can expect or do concerning the site.
So did the surrounding cities, state, Masshighway, Mass Gaming Commission ever conduct a traffic study.
I'm not concerned with Wynn traffic study. I would like to hear what these state agencies have to say concerning this.

I have heard people like Fred Salvucci have made comments concerning the traffic scenario concerning the casino development.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:28 AM   #48
EricS
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Silver Line =/= light rail

Green Line = light rail

Blue/Orange/Red Lines = heavy rail/rapid transit
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:50 AM   #49
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

So basically Masshighway, the state, the surrounding cities along with the Mass gaming Commission never conducting their own studies on what will be needed to upgrade the infrastructure before moving forward on this project to keeping the traffic flowing?

They just assume Wynn Traffic Study says it all. Granted Wynn doesn't even live in this state or the area.

Does this make any sense for Massachusetts commuters that these people don't have a traffic plan mapped out yet?
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #50
TallIsGood
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the city/state require developers to pay a third party engineering firm to do a traffic study? The state doesn't do its on traffic studies for particular projects, I don't believe.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:40 PM   #51
tangent
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

The closest transit to Wynn would be a footbridge over the Mystic from Assembly which would put Assembly station 1200 to 1500 feet away depending on which option they choose.

Having a pedestrian bridge there is the most appealing on a number of levels, since it would allow people walkable access to a wider variety of attractions on both sides of the river at Wynn and at Assembly Row. Restaurants, bars, movie theater, casino, nightlife, would help make the area as a whole more of a destination. For residents of Assembly Row it would make a variety of stores at Gateway Center reasonably accessible by walking. And for recreational and commuter bike riders it provides a much quicker, safer and more scenic route across the river. And it is probably a relatively cheap option compared with busing more people around.

I think the big negative right now is that Mayor Curtatone doesn't want Wynn to be able to use any contribution to funding a footbridge as part of any surrounding community package since as he sees that Wynn benefits from a footbridge more than any other group. Which he is probably right in that Wynn would be the biggest beneficiary of having people be able to walk to the casino from Assembly Station... but I think he has downplayed the positive aspects of getting a footbridge there a bit too much as part of the negotiations.

The only negatives from Somerville's perspective as far as I can tell is that restaurants and shops at Assembly Row would be competing more directly for foot traffic with restaurants and shops at Wynn. But with overall increased foot traffic that argument seems to be a wash. Or put another way, if Wynn is getting built anyway, then having people walk there from Somerville's Assembly Station is better for businesses in Assembly Row than having them just drive past Somerville altogether.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:51 PM   #52
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangent View Post
The closest transit to Wynn would be a footbridge over the Mystic from Assembly which would put Assembly station 1200 to 1500 feet away depending on which option they choose.

Having a pedestrian bridge there is the most appealing on a number of levels, since it would allow people walkable access to a wider variety of attractions on both sides of the river at Wynn and at Assembly Row. Restaurants, bars, movie theater, casino, nightlife, would help make the area as a whole more of a destination. For residents of Assembly Row it would make a variety of stores at Gateway Center reasonably accessible by walking. And for recreational and commuter bike riders it provides a much quicker, safer and more scenic route across the river. And it is probably a relatively cheap option compared with busing more people around.

I think the big negative right now is that Mayor Curtatone doesn't want Wynn to be able to use any contribution to funding a footbridge as part of any surrounding community package since as he sees that Wynn benefits from a footbridge more than any other group. Which he is probably right in that Wynn would be the biggest beneficiary of having people be able to walk to the casino from Assembly Station... but I think he has downplayed the positive aspects of getting a footbridge there a bit too much as part of the negotiations.

The only negatives from Somerville's perspective as far as I can tell is that restaurants and shops at Assembly Row would be competing more directly for foot traffic with restaurants and shops at Wynn. But with overall increased foot traffic that argument seems to be a wash. Or put another way, if Wynn is getting built anyway, then having people walk there from Somerville's Assembly Station is better for businesses in Assembly Row than having them just drive past Somerville altogether.
Regarding any competition Wynn would pose to Assembly Row, my impression has been that Assembly Row attracts families and teenagers mostly. As long as the movie theater and LegoLand are there (not to mention the outlets and average restaurants), I don't see the adult-oriented Wynn resort poaching too much business from Assembly. Especially if the retail at Wynn Everett is anything like their Vegas resorts (i.e. $50/person buffets, fancy steakhouses, high end jewelers, Ferrari store, etc.). It will be complementary to what's there now and what's going in.

Also please sign me up for team footbridge. It's such a no-brainer, especially if they could make part of it enclosed/protected from the elements.
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Old 02-09-2016, 02:45 PM   #53
kjdonovan
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

A direct walk from the Legoland giraffe to the casino using a ped bridge would, at minimum, be a half mile. More likely closer to .8 depending on where the bridge and sidewalks are built. And it would be going under two train bridges and through a fairly unattractive state park. No measurable amount of money will be poached from Assembly because people casually opt to walk over to the casino.

It's like saying they shouldn't have built Central Square because it's cannibalizing Harvard.
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Old 02-09-2016, 04:04 PM   #54
TheRifleman
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Who gives a shit about a footbridge? How about a study concerning the increase traffic flow in and out of Boston for the everyday commuters.
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Old 02-09-2016, 04:09 PM   #55
statler
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Rifleman, by any chance do believe this project will affect your commute?
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:14 PM   #56
TheRifleman
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

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Rifleman, by any chance do believe this project will affect your commute?
Commute, Nightlife, Weekends. YES.

I am not against the project I am against them not having a valid traffic plan. This is like Seaport. Just build then worry about the infrastructure afterwards.

Its like building house. Lets work on the framing, roof, and siding. We can worry about the foundation later.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:06 PM   #57
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
Who gives a shit about a footbridge? How about a study concerning the increase traffic flow in and out of Boston for the everyday commuters.
Rifleman,

There's a nifty feature on Google Maps now that I think you'll like. When you click on certain retail establishments (restaurants, nightclubs, bars, etc.) there is a bar graph called "Popular Times." I started using the feature to dictate what time I would go to a restaurant for lunch, or when to avoid it due to crowds.

For example, compare the "Popular Times" for Shake Shack on Newbury Street on Wednesday vs. Saturday:


Screen Shot 2016-02-09 at 6.56.35 PM
by Derek Shooster, on Flickr


Screen Shot 2016-02-09 at 6.56.50 PM
by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

If you're looking to avoid crowds at Shake Shack, then it's best not to go on Saturdays.

Anyway, I'm telling you this because the feature works nationwide. If you open Las Vegas in Google Maps and start clicking to see the popular times people visit establishments there on the strip, you'll notice it's mostly dead during the daytimes and even through most of the week. It's only on Friday and Saturday nights after 7PM to 8PM that venue patronage really begins to spike.

The point I think people are trying to articulate is that the times casino resorts generate most of their traffic does not coincide with the rush hour traffic generated from people's 9-to-5 jobs in the city. So in the grand scheme of things, Wynn Everett will not hurt traffic as badly as you fear. Like others, I am A LOT more worried about the thousands of commuters moving into Partners' new building at Assembly Row later this year.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:21 PM   #58
whighlander
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshoost88 View Post
Regarding any competition Wynn would pose to Assembly Row, my impression has been that Assembly Row attracts families and teenagers mostly. As long as the movie theater and LegoLand are there (not to mention the outlets and average restaurants), I don't see the adult-oriented Wynn resort poaching too much business from Assembly. Especially if the retail at Wynn Everett is anything like their Vegas resorts (i.e. $50/person buffets, fancy steakhouses, high end jewelers, Ferrari store, etc.). It will be complementary to what's there now and what's going in.

Also please sign me up for team footbridge. It's such a no-brainer, especially if they could make part of it enclosed/protected from the elements.
DSHoost -- Wynn Everett is planned to be family oriented as well as traditional Casino -- he's designing the complex to include indoor gardens [good for a weekend escape this time of the year] + boating and lanscaping along the river [spring, summer, earl autumn] undoubtedly there will be some Vegas-style Christmas Seasonal displays tuned to the New England landscape as well + let's not forget the statue of Popeye

Curatone should get with the program and talk with Wynn directly just as Marty did and get the footbridge as part of the deal with Sommerville -- everyone would benefit with a direct connection to Assembly -- ideally with a moving sidewalk in a climate controlled gerbil tube
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Old 02-09-2016, 08:10 PM   #59
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

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Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
Who gives a shit about a footbridge? How about a study concerning the increase traffic flow in and out of Boston for the everyday commuters.
If you care about reducing car traffic to/from the casino, then you have an interest in a direct connection (i.e. footbridge) to rapid transit.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:39 PM   #60
scorpio02150
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Re: Wynn Everett Casino | Everett

Both are Valid points ^.
To me, driving would still be the option for most from/to the casino but having options is nice (ie footbridge, improved T service, shuttles, water taxis)
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