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Old 01-14-2016, 08:04 AM   #41
whighlander
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Originally Posted by meddlepal View Post
You do realize several of those companies listed plus a bunch others that should be in that group but aren't explicitly mentioned have major satellite offices in Cambridge right?
Note: -- I would not totally rule out a new Cambridge / Boston HQ address for IBM

They, even more than GE are in the company transformation process and the lure of Kendall / Seaport has to be significant

In a certain way IBM too would be coming home to Greater Boston. The modern IBM of computers was born out of the contract to build the computers for the Semi Automated Ground Environment [SAGE] air defense system. SAGE in turn began with Project Charles at MIT using radars on Cape Cod connected to the Whirlwind Computer housed in the Barto Building on Mass Ave in Cambridge [the building is today home to Novartis]. After proof that radars could be networked a computer was researched by Lincoln Lab, Developed by Mitre and managed by the Electronics Systems Division -- in and around Hanscom AFB.

Now Watson Health is HQ in Kendall. Much more IBM including an even bigger HQ operation is in the pipeline.

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
Maynard (probably other MetroWest locales too, but mainly Maynard).

DEC ==> Compaq ==> HP is the corporate evolution of that campus through cycles of mergers and downsizing.
F-Line -- it hasn't been Maynard for decades

DEC started in Maynard but after a short stint in the Mill all of the manufacturing moved and later most of the R&D moved out to Marlboro, Shrewsbury, Hudson and Nashua and much further flung locations.

When Compac bought all of DEC except the semiconductor operation in Hudson -- Intel and storage operations in Shrewsbury -- Maxtor they didn't stay in Maynard

HP then absorbed Compaq but mostly only kept the service and software operations

HP had a lab in Cambridge for a while but I think Carly closed it --- however they still sponsor joint research projects at MIT
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:03 AM   #42
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
At this point why not give everybody tax breaks. That will move the economy.
Why take any risks when everything is funded by the Middle Class Taxpayers?
Answer: Not everyone is equal, Rif.

GE is a catalyst.

It's not like bringing in 800 government jobs or a Walmart or even (tip of the hat to you) Liberty Mutual.

This is different.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:08 AM   #43
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Many in CT are upset that MA stole GE from them. But CT stole GE from NY decades ago the same way: incentives.
Yeah, well they should build a few more world class universities in tight proximity to each other.

Hilarious that they think it was only about money.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:19 AM   #44
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
GE also left CT to dodge an increase in corporate taxes related to funding a massive multi-modal infrastructure overhaul.

GE's money also won't be going to MA because they store it all off-shore and are perhaps the biggest tax evaders in the country.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/poli...flow%3Atwitter
Look, I'm assuming the corporation will be paying 0% taxes to the Commonwealth. Let's get that out of the way at the start.

However, using some basic math, let's say the average AGI for the 800 top-level multinational corporate suits is $300K. The state tax rate is 5.1%. That's $12.24 million per year right there.

Now, how many foreign business people travel to GE's HQ every year for business???? Yup, mo money, mo money.

Then there is the local property taxes for each one of their condos or Mcmansions........

Then there is the sales tax on everything they and their well-heeled visitors purchase in the area.

It is probably not out of the realm to estimate that the total return to the region is not at least $30 million per year. That puts the breakpoint at less than 5 years.

...........and I'm not even counting all the ancillary benefits - - these folks WON'T be sending their kids to the public schools. Don't confuse this with what the stupid southern states do to get auto plants in.

Last edited by shmessy; 01-14-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:32 AM   #45
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Look, I'm assuming the corporation will be paying 0% taxes to the Commonwealth. Let's get that out of the way at the start.

However, using some basic math, let's say the average AGI for the 800 top-level multinational corporation suits is $300K. The state tax rate is 5.1%. That's $12.24 million per year right there.

Then there is the local property taxes for each one of their condos or Mcmansions........

Then there is the sales taxes on everything they purchase in the area.

It is probably not out of the realm to estimate that the total return to the region is not at least $30 million per year. That puts the breakpoint at less than 5 years.

...........and I'm not even counting the ancillary benefits - - these folks WON'T be sending their kids to the public schools. Don't confuse this with what the stupid southern states do to get auto plants in.
Only 200 of the headquarters employees will be corporate staff. The remaining 600 will be designers, developers, product managers, etc. This isn't being billed as a typical back-office corporate headquarters, but more as an innovation hub that will also be designated as corporate HQ (with all the symbolism that the HQ designation conveys).

The corporate staff should be the ones making the big bucks and paying big taxes. The technical guys and girls won't pay nearly as much in taxes (despite their good, solid wages) but they're the ones who will stoke the local economy.

I don't think anyone who is excited about this would be nearly as happy if all we were getting were the top suits.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:38 AM   #46
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Only 200 of the headquarters employees will be corporate staff. The remaining 600 will be designers, developers, product managers, etc. This isn't being billed as a typical back-office corporate headquarters, but more as an innovation hub that will also be designated as corporate HQ (with all the symbolism that the HQ designation conveys).

The corporate staff should be the ones making the big bucks and paying big taxes. The technical guys and girls won't pay nearly as much in taxes (despite their good, solid wages) but they're the ones who will stoke the local economy.

I don't think anyone who is excited about this would be nearly as happy if all we were getting were the top suits.
I'm saying AVERAGE AGI.

That encompasses the $500K+ corporate gods and the $200K+ headquarters designers/technical people.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:49 AM   #47
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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I'm saying AVERAGE AGI.

That encompasses the $500K+ corporate gods and the $200K+ headquarters designers/technical people.
There aren't many technical people making over $200k at any company. Think closer to the $75-150k range.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:09 PM   #48
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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There aren't many technical people making over $200k at any company. Think closer to the $75-150k range.
It's a moot point. He's saying that even assuming $0 in corporate income tax, the state still gets a net benefit after tax breaks. An AGI of $150k instead of $300k moves his math from $30M/year to $24M/year. It doesn't change his point at all.

Realistically, the corporate income tax will be in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars per year. That Globe article that Data posted is a prime example of cherry picking to prove a (false) point. Yes, GE did not pay taxes in 2014. That is true. However their 5-year average is about $106M/year, or 1.6% of profits.

We can argue that them paying 1.6% is not fair, moral, or what have you, but to say they won't pay income tax is plain false.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:27 PM   #49
shmessy
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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There aren't many technical people making over $200k at any company. Think closer to the $75-150k range.
$75-150K per year??? That's laughable for a global HQ of one of the largest mutinationals on earth.

We're not talking overpaid Boston cops.

We're also not talking back office folks in Westborough.

We're talking headquarters personnel of General Electric. If they want them onsite at their global HQ, planning global strategy, etc., they will average well over 200K per year plus bonus/incentives.

It's far cheaper to GE to keep their $75-150K people in the burbs. They're not stupid. They aren't spending billions to make this move so that they can house people making what my plumber makes.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:38 PM   #50
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Don't forget that Philips just moved all of its research personnel to Canal Park from the Hudson Valley, and they're selling the family jewels to fund huge investments in digital. They have a huge health portfolio, including a lot of former HP assets.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:02 PM   #51
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Why the Seaport? Let them build an 800' downtown.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:49 PM   #52
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Well consider this, the top 5 executives pulled in $65M in FY14 with a low salary of $8M (Source: annual proxy statement). It is not a stretch that there are a dozen or more people making a million plus salaries and the designers and programmers are all going to be over $100k. Total salaries will be at least $200M $300M or $10M to $15M in state income tax.

Now add the indirect jobs created by outside companies resulting for the marginal demand GE creates. Add the sales tax from the employees and the corporate expenses. You could easily be looking at the low end of $15M to $20M in increased state tax revenues with a chance for much more.

Further, the state probably spread out its incentive package across multiple years, so I bet the state at least breaks even during the duration of the tax breaks and after they expire its a net gain. But the real gain, which is not easily measured, is the attraction of other business because the area develops a critical mass for human capital and support businesses.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:13 PM   #53
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Originally Posted by boston85 View Post
Well consider this, the top 5 executives pulled in $65M in FY14 with a low salary of $8M (Source: annual proxy statement). It is not a stretch that there are a dozen or more people making a million plus salaries and the designers and programmers are all going to be over $100k. Total salaries will be at least $200M $300M or $10M to $15M in state income tax.

Now add the indirect jobs created by outside companies resulting for the marginal demand GE creates. Add the sales tax from the employees and the corporate expenses. You could easily be looking at the low end of $15M to $20M in increased state tax revenues with a chance for much more.

Further, the state probably spread out its incentive package across multiple years, so I bet the state at least breaks even during the duration of the tax breaks and after they expire its a net gain. But the real gain, which is not easily measured, is the attraction of other business because the area develops a critical mass for human capital and support businesses.
It is also the case, isn't it, that the $124m is stuff that GE won't have to pay on business activity that would not have been here. Except for their actual HQ building, GE isn't taking a "slot" away from some other taxpayer and then not paying in it.

So this is not $124m of taxpayer cash laid out or diverted, and not all of the $124m is cash that some other employer would have paid. More like, if GE delivers new people who pay $30m/year in taxes, then GE gets to come free. Seems fair to me.

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Then there is the local property taxes for each one of their condos or Mcmansions........
This is not a selling point. Our housing market is big and GE's people can only occupy 800 units in a metro area with millions of homes. Even 800 new bidders is not going to move the metro area's residential property market much. Even if all 800 overpay for their houses by $10k or 5% (enough to win any bidding war), that's just a tiny % of appreciation on a tiny share of the housing stock that never really gets reflected in prices or taxes. We are not a company town and the value of our residential or retail stock isn't going to change, and our metro commercial office market is going to change by 1 building being built 2 to 3 years earlier than it would have been.

Short term, it is about moving the income of 800 newcomers to the income & sales tax rolls, and long term it is about synergies creating x-hundred more jobs to attract people or retain recent grads.
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Last edited by Arlington; 01-14-2016 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:31 PM   #54
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
I'm saying AVERAGE AGI.

That encompasses the $500K+ corporate gods and the $200K+ headquarters designers/technical people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattony View Post
There aren't many technical people making over $200k at any company. Think closer to the $75-150k range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
$75-150K per year??? That's laughable for a global HQ of one of the largest mutinationals on earth.

We're not talking overpaid Boston cops.

We're also not talking back office folks in Westborough.

We're talking headquarters personnel of General Electric. If they want them onsite at their global HQ, planning global strategy, etc., they will average well over 200K per year plus bonus/incentives.

It's far cheaper to GE to keep their $75-150K people in the burbs. They're not stupid. They aren't spending billions to make this move so that they can house people making what my plumber makes.
You said technical people. There aren't many people making that kind of money in anything you could call a technical role, at corporate HQ or otherwise. $200k+ salaries at a company like GE are for senior management and lawyers.

Also, I'm not sure who you think works in a corporate HQ. There are way more executive assistants and HR personnel than there are actual executives.
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Old 01-14-2016, 02:40 PM   #55
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Answer: Not everyone is equal, Rif.

GE is a catalyst.

It's not like bringing in 800 government jobs or a Walmart or even (tip of the hat to you) Liberty Mutual.

This is different.
GE is corporate TITAN.
Bottom line: Boston doesn't need these types of deals. We have enough going on. This is BOSTON "We don't need GE"
GE needs us and they want to be around the talent.
Boston does not need to be corporate America like OHIO.

Actually everything Innovative is really coming out of Cambridge.

Hopefully GE actually uses this money to take out Harbor Garage that would be a perfect location at least to stick it those Harbor Tower NIMBYS

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Old 01-14-2016, 05:20 PM   #56
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

Fairfield and Connecticut probably could have done nothing to head this off, it's about being in an urban area with access to highly educated Talent and reinventing their image. My hometown of Omaha just lost a major fortune 500 agribusiness company, Conagra Foods, that moved is headquarters to the Merchandise Mart building in Chicago. It wasn't about money but about reinventing their image and taping the labor pool on Chicago. The GE move is ironic given that Connecticut and all outlying exurbs of NYC benefited from corporate flight from Manhattan over the last 40 years.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:46 PM   #57
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

The Globe has an interesting article on the pitch the State and City made to GE:

Quote:
[...]

It features a variety of helipad-accessible sites that GE should consider, along with a long list of benefits that the industrial conglomerate could enjoy by moving here.

[...]

The combined state and city package for GE could total more than $150 million, an economic development deal that will deliver 800 jobs to the city.

[...]

The math, on its surface, can seem like a steep price: perhaps as much as $189,000 per job.

But the Baker administration said the state’s primary contribution — worth as much as $120 million — will go toward site improvements on the property that GE eventually picks for its new headquarters, not to tax breaks.

That could mean anything from a new building to a parking garage to roadwork and utility lines, the Baker administration said. The exact costcould be considerably less: It depends on the property. GE hasn’t picked one yet, although its sights are set on the Seaport area.

In addition to the potential $120 million package, the Massachusetts Life Sciences Center will give $5 million to create a new innovation center to better connect GE with the region’s research institutions and the state will provide $1 million in workforce training funds.

To help persuade GE to move its headquarters from Fairfield, Conn., to Boston’s Seaport area, the city is also kicking in money: as much as $25 million in property tax relief, spread over 20years.

The pitch book offers GE an array of additional benefits: a hangar at Hanscom Air Force Base “to accommodate six airplanes for General Electric to fly to and from Logan International Airport,” assistance finding child care and schools, and the potential for “General Electric signage on properties,” to help promote the GE brand. There’s even the promise of a trolley tour of Boston, led by city employees.

The pitch brochure focuses on eight available sites: They’re all publicly owned and most are on the South Boston waterfront. It also highlights two planned ferry projects, the ease of access to Logan Airport, and other benefits of the region’s transportation infrastructure.

[...]
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:58 PM   #58
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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You said technical people. There aren't many people making that kind of money in anything you could call a technical role, at corporate HQ or otherwise. $200k+ salaries at a company like GE are for senior management and lawyers.

Also, I'm not sure who you think works in a corporate HQ. There are way more executive assistants and HR personnel than there are actual executives.
The "idea" people who end up leading projects would be "technical" people who would be paid 200k+. A person who is educated, intelligent AND creative is rare and can easily be seduced by lucrative offers from competition. They are paid well for retention. (I worked in R&D for a multinational corporation on a ground breaking project, and I know the guy who came up with the idea was given pretty much anything he wanted)
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Old 01-15-2016, 05:20 AM   #59
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

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The "idea" people who end up leading projects would be "technical" people who would be paid 200k+. A person who is educated, intelligent AND creative is rare and can easily be seduced by lucrative offers from competition. They are paid well for retention. (I worked in R&D for a multinational corporation on a ground breaking project, and I know the guy who came up with the idea was given pretty much anything he wanted)
Agreed. Think of senior project leaders at Google X, or Nest. This is about the Internet of Things.
http://www.wired.com/insights/2014/1...things-bigger/

And toss in nanotechnology and graphene.

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Boston Mayor Martin J. Walsh’s chief of staff today touted the collaboration between the mayor and Gov. Charlie Baker for bringing General Electric’s headquarters from Connecticut to Boston and said more corporate arrivals could be on the way — all while hitting back at critics who labeled GE’s move to the Hub “a bad deal.”

“I think it’s a great sign and a great message to the world that Boston is open for business with GE coming here,” Daniel Koh said on Herald Radio, adding that the mayor’s office “absolutely” will be reaching out to other companies about coming to Boston.
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc...poach_more_hqs
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:33 AM   #60
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Re: General Electric HQ | TBD | Innovation District

So GE is going to pay to open the Old Northern Ave Bridge? People only or would cars even work again (I think not)?
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