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Old 09-17-2014, 11:04 AM   #21
TheRifleman
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Re: MA Casino Developments

I know the Celtics don't own TDGarden-- but I would be sick not going to a game near North Station. (The city--Boston)

Boston without the Celtics is just not right.
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:36 AM   #22
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Re: MA Casino Developments

That sounds like a great idea...take the Celtics out of that centrally located area with great mass transit coverage. The neighborhood that has all those bars & restaurants and stuff. The neighborhood which is currently going through a massive rejuvenation with new residences, retail, and hotels. Yea, let's take them away from all those distractions and plop them in the middle of fucking Revere.

Hopefully the board will approve that unanimously.

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Old 09-17-2014, 11:37 AM   #23
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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Why does everyone always think the Celtics are eager to move?
yeah, leased arena or not, zero chance the Celtics move out of downtown anytime soon. Soccer/Olympic stadium? sure. 17,000+ capacity arena = not very likely at all.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:03 PM   #24
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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That sounds like a great idea...take the Celtics out of that centrally located area with great mass transit coverage. The neighborhood that has all those bars & restaurants and stuff. The neighborhood which is currently going through a massive rejuvenation with new residences, retail, and hotels. Yea, let's take them away from all those distractions and plop them in the middle of fucking Revere.
+1

Also, as good as an idea as it may sound for redevelopment of Suffolk Downs, for a large group of New Englanders and folks who used to live in the area, from Baby Boomers and before to the current generation, would find the notion of the Celtics not playing on Causeway Street and not even in Boston an absolute heresy and an anathema to all that is good in the world. Bob Ryan and Bill Simmons would spontaneously combust. Dogs and Cats living together, etc.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:10 PM   #25
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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Bob Ryan and Bill Simmons would spontaneously combust.
Yes, but are there any downsides?
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:46 PM   #26
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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I actually don't think the petroleum terminals will be as much of a problem as I'd supposed in the past. They can be quite isolated off to one side of the site, with green barriers in between and probably a fairly wide access road. The site of the current track is plenty large for a residential component - I suspect the far side of Tomesello Way would be given over to big box stores, which don't really care about the tanks.

Wonderland wasn't ballyhooed as a development opportunity when it closed, it just... closed. Imaging matters. Also, Wonderland, though close as the bird flies, has been roped in to the larger issues of development on Revere Beach and Wonderland Station TOD, which has slowed things down.

Not to mention the different municipalities involved, the slightly more central site, and the fact that some sites just get adopted by the right developers with the right priorities, and I don't think Wonderland's languishing is a perfect indicator for the future of Suffolk Downs.
The terminals are already well-buffered from the SD site. You can't see the storage tanks from there because of the row of trees and artificial ponds behind Tomesello Way: http://goo.gl/maps/JMGBJ. Non-issue. Those things only look ugly as sin from 1A and the Chelsea side of the river, but they're sight-unseen from most of Suffolk Downs (and to whatever extent they are visible can be easily hidden by new development and new plantings).

What they need to do is line the terminal side of Tomesello Way with new retail on all those barren overspill parking lots. Something more than the Stop & Shop plaza because the accessibility is pretty great by car from 1A and on foot from the SD Blue Line stop. They'd have to strike a balance of decent parking capacity because of all the 1A and airport-bound car customers...but also have lots segmented with enough pedestrian accessibility (i.e. separated with islands and sidewalks, not just a sea of asphalt). But if there's any place where it's 'okay' to fill with big box stores, ringing Tomesello Way with them on the terminal-facing side is the way to go. Note the 120 bus also does a zigzag loop around Waldemar Ave., so the bend in Tomesello closest to 1A has good transit access too. They just have to strike the right balance and right amount of separation between modes, because there's big markets to serve by car and by foot/transit. This shouldn't disintegrate into a mode-on-mode philosophical war if done in proper proportion.


I think the actual track side of Tomesello--the lots and the horse track itself--is where the density needs to go since that's where the residential street grid can be extended connecting between the dead ends of Walley St. and Washburn Ave. More or less creating a contiguous street between the two Blue Line stops, framed on the north side by Winthrop Ave., south side by Waldemar, east side by Walley/Washburn and the T stops, and west side by Tomessello (which segregates all the high-speed traffic originating from 1A and 145 to that road only and keeps it the hell off all the other streets). Fill in the center as you see fit. And then you might be able to redraw the 120's route through the whole development away from its Boardman/Waldemar/Orient Ave./Bennington zigzag to a neater tie-in at Beachmont that also serves the SD stop.

It's almost perfect how much the location facilitates a local grid extension AND balances the needs of the 1A/airport car traffic which really needs some retail options while segregating it from the local density. For not-tall development that meshes with the neighborhood in a way Eastie and the southeast corner of Revere will approve of, it really is teed up well. Think Beacon Park and the various street grid opportunities through there, only this location is even easier to grid because it doesn't have to cross an interstate + train tracks cavern.



I'm just terrified that the BRA is going to screw this pooch with its own big-block ideas of density that create a stalemate with the neighborhood and turf wars with Revere that prevent anything from happening. Or get seduced by too much car-centric development thinking 1A = the neighborhood. The only reason this casino proposal got close is because Mohegan Sun's sheer might breaks up the logjam in local provincialism. Left to their own devices and conventional developers, the "Suffolk Downs Redevelopment" thread on AB is probably going to be another one of those that lasts 7+ years and 50 pages with nothing to show for it except comments on page 51 about "Jesus...we're still waiting for this thing to get off the ground?!".
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:31 PM   #27
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Re: MA Casino Developments

My first post in months...Figured I'd better make it worth it.

Former Secretary of Transportation and Local Urban Development Experts Announce New Vision for Future Planning of the Suffolk Downs Site
Community group offers five guiding principles for development

BOSTON, Mass., September 17, 2014 -- Led by former Massachusetts Secretary of Transportation Jim Aloisi, a largely East Boston-based group of urban planners, architects, public infrastructure experts, and representatives of various community groups propose an alternative vision to a casino at Suffolk Downs.

This group, formed after the November 5, 2013, election in which East Boston voters rejected a casino at Suffolk Downs, has been working toward offering a new vision for the development of the 161 acre site. The group is releasing this document in light of Sterling Suffolk LLC's decision Tuesday to close track operations next year.

The group’s two-page vision statement, titled “Overarching Principles For Development in East Boston,” outlines five principles by which all future significant development proposals in East Boston – and Suffolk Downs in particular – should be measured. The principles, including job creation, community inclusion and a transparent process, environmental impact, transit-oriented development, and economic feasibility, present a framework to ensure that this critical and unique site is developed in a way that enhances quality of life, job creation and return on investment for all residents of Boston and surrounding communities.

“Although Suffolk Downs is privately owned, it is supported by a highway and transit system owned and operated by the state and paid for by the taxpayers of Massachusetts,” said Aloisi, a native of East Boston. “It is only fair and just that any major development on its grounds be thoroughly vetted by local citizenry and surrounding communities. We hope these principles, which express a positive and forward-looking vision for the future of this site and community, will be embraced by a broad spectrum of state and local decision makers.”

As many real estate and other investment experts contend, the Suffolk Downs site offers a wealth of development possibilities beyond a casino. For example, Banker and Tradesman recently noted that "At a time when home and condo prices are soaring out of reach for middle class families in Boston, Suffolk's 110 or so Boston acres are a huge potential asset, ground zero for the Hub's next big mixed-use neighborhood of shops and homes." (1)

Desirable factors such as quick access to downtown Boston, Logan Airport and the emerging Innovation District in South Boston via the Blue Line and soon the Silver Line, as well as a shared economic center for the communities of East Boston, Revere and Winthrop make Suffolk Downs an exceptional candidate for a mix of housing and commercial development opportunities, according to the group. Also, the adjacent Belle Isle Marsh provides abundant green space and offers potential connections to the East Boston Greenway.

A full version of the “Overarching Principles For Development in East Boston” can be found at: https://sites.google.com/site/eastboston2020/. For more information, please contact east.boston.visioning@gmail.com.

Visioning group members include:

Jim Aloisi
Lyle Bradley
Joel Bryce
Ernani Jose DeAraujo
Antonio Di Mambro
Neenah Estrella-Luna, MPH, PhD
Brian Gregory
Steve Holt
Giordana Mecagni
Sandra Nijjar
Mike Russo
Trent Sheppard
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:04 PM   #28
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Re: MA Casino Developments

The Golden State Warriors are proposing to build a new basketball arena on the San Francisco Waterfront. Cost $500-650 million. Barclays Center in Brooklyn cost $1 billion. The Celtics aren't moving to Suffolk Downs when they (or their ticketholders) won't foot the financial cost of a single purpose arena. Particularly as the existing Garden is ideally situated from the standpoint of mass transit, and easy to get to from downtown.
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:30 PM   #29
Max Power
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
Visioning group members include:

Jim Aloisi
Lyle Bradley
Joel Bryce
Ernani Jose DeAraujo
Antonio Di Mambro
Neenah Estrella-Luna, MPH, PhD
Brian Gregory
Steve Holt
Giordana Mecagni
Sandra Nijjar
Mike Russo
Trent Sheppard


Steve Holt!
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:40 PM   #30
Matthew
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

Steve Holt!
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:52 PM   #31
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Re: MA Casino Developments

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
My first post in months...Figured I'd better make it worth it.

Former Secretary of Transportation and Local Urban Development Experts Announce New Vision for Future Planning of the Suffolk Downs Site
Community group offers five guiding principles for development

Steve Holt
Good to know there is a community group already pushing to redevelop this place, hopefully people will look at this in 10 years and wonder how we ever could have gone with putting a casino there instead of development.

Also

STEVE HOLT!
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:13 PM   #32
tmac9wr
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

We use too many Arrested Development allusions here.
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:42 PM   #33
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

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We use too many Arrested Development allusions here.
Wynn!
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Old 09-17-2014, 08:39 PM   #34
tmac9wr
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

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Wynn!
That was perfect haha
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:24 PM   #35
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

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We use too many Arrested Development allusions here.
If only there weren't so many AD fans here. But there are dozens of us! Dozens!!

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Old 09-18-2014, 06:41 AM   #36
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

I'll quietly raise my hand as someone who has seen not a single episode, and never once felt compelled to. Always seemed like a show that thought it was smarter than it was, and has grown in respect and grandeur to such a point now, that even if it was as smart as it thought it was... it could never live up to reach the pedestal it was put on.

That and after watching Teen Wolf Too! I had little use for Justine's little brother.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:44 AM   #37
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

Your life sir, it is incomplete. AD is amazing because every time you rewatch it you notice something else going on. It just keeps getting funnier and funnier. There are tons of background jokes that allude to future events you won't even get unless you've watched the whole series. The shows seriously genius.

Oh, and the potential redevelopment of Suffolk Downs is cool too, I guess.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:43 AM   #38
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

Funny thing is that my gf and I are rewatching the series right now. Been a year and a half, figured it's about time.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:24 PM   #39
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

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Always seemed like a show that thought it was smarter than it was
You're reading the situation wrong. Yes its fans on the whole are perhaps smarter and a bit smugger than thou, but the actual show never takes itself seriously enough to end up getting caught smelling its own farts. First off, the characters are far too dumb to be pretentious, and secondly the brilliant writing is brilliant because it's so damn funny, not because the egos writing it are outsize or any other distractions...it's all there in the name of the laugh. You're missing out, bro.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:37 PM   #40
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment Potential

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I'll quietly raise my hand as someone who has seen not a single episode, and never once felt compelled to. Always seemed like a show that thought it was smarter than it was, and has grown in respect and grandeur to such a point now, that even if it was as smart as it thought it was... it could never live up to reach the pedestal it was put on.

That and after watching Teen Wolf Too! I had little use for Justine's little brother.
Oh shit son, get on it

Roll a blunt or two, pour some whiskey, sit back, relax and just binge this ish with a girl or your best bro. The show is stupid as shit but funny as hell.
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