archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-14-2014, 08:49 AM   #21
Kahta
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 300
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Is it even safe for people in wheelchairs to be in such a hilly area?

How many of the buildings in the area are ADA compliant?
Kahta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 09:00 AM   #22
underground
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North End
Posts: 2,386
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
Political payback and class warfare.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/c...rxI/story.html
Oh please, Jean. Political payback and class warfare OVER TACTILE ADA COMPLIANT SIDEWALK RAMPS. Oooo, feel the wrath of Marty Walsh, BHA. His cruel use of power knows no ends! Up next, he'll be repainting your fire hydrants a slightly different shade of red! Won't that be horrible? You better think twice about crossing him again.
underground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 12:46 PM   #23
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,435
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahta View Post
Is it even safe for people in wheelchairs to be in such a hilly area?

How many of the buildings in the area are ADA compliant?
None. But that makes it even more important to have accessible sidewalks door-to-door when handicapped people do live there, do need to get there, and do have a tougher time getting up the stairs.


Of course, the sidewalks are going to be shit as long as the Architectural Commission mandates that *ONLY* wire-cut bricks can be used on the sidewalks. Not machine-pressed where the gaps actually fit together. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to allow seamless bricks across the street from MGH. They still block it the whole length of Charles.

Credit where credit's due...that's actually how they did make bricks in the 17th century. With fucking hand tools slicing through wet clay in not-quite uniform shapes. Bravo...one example of genuine historical accuracy. The urban tactical assault strollers out in force on those sidewalks and double-parked Range Rovers near the Myrtle St. Playground...not quite so period-accurate.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 12:17 PM   #24
Brad Plaid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 817
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Hard to see this as other than a problem of obsessive first world one percenters, detached from Joe Average reality, living in shiny, gilded bubbles.
Brad Plaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 12:57 PM   #25
Scipio
Senior Member
 
Scipio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 482
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
None. But that makes it even more important to have accessible sidewalks door-to-door when handicapped people do live there, do need to get there, and do have a tougher time getting up the stairs.
There are actually quite a few handicapped people living in the neighborhood - all of the former school buildings have been converted into affordable housing specifically for the elderly and/or handicapped. Nobody is going to comfortably roll a wheelchair up a grade like Revere street, but there are still quite a few people with disabilities living on the shallower streets.

Speaking as a resident of Beacon Hill, the BHCA and most of the other people who attend public meetings and claim to speak for the neighborhood can get fucked when it comes to transportation and urbanism issues. They look and lead lives very different from the majority of the people who live here, but they are the people with the time and inclination to actually show up to meetings.

If BHCA or someone else is willing to pay the premium right now to get something more than yellow tactile strips and concrete ramps then great. Having raised crosswalks would be great from a universal design perspective, since they are more accessible than ramps and have a side benefit of slowing traffic bombing down the hill and improving crosswalk visibility. But the city is right to be lighting a fire under their ass by starting work on the yellow/concrete stuff, since getting even that level of accessibility installed right now is better than waiting years for the infrastructure fairy to put in raised crosswalks.
Scipio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 02:07 PM   #26
MBTAddict
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 473
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio View Post
Speaking as a resident of Beacon Hill, the BHCA and most of the other people who attend public meetings and claim to speak for the neighborhood can get fucked when it comes to transportation and urbanism issues. They look and lead lives very different from the majority of the people who live here, but they are the people with the time and inclination to actually show up to meetings.
I feel like you could change out "Beacon Hill" and "BHCA" for pretty much any neighborhood and any neighborhood civic association and this would be true.

Am I correct in assuming this associations came into their "power" as a result of the big top-down planning of the mid 1900s? Do we think the pendulum will ever swing the other way? Not to discourage public participation but to empower our professional planners?
MBTAddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #27
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,577
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBTAddict View Post
I feel like you could change out "Beacon Hill" and "BHCA" for pretty much any neighborhood and any neighborhood civic association and this would be true.

Am I correct in assuming this associations came into their "power" as a result of the big top-down planning of the mid 1900s? Do we think the pendulum will ever swing the other way? Not to discourage public participation but to empower our professional planners?
I actually think the community associations got their power because of the "great work" of the professional planners in the urban renewal period.

Too bad the West End didn't have a powerful community association in the late 50's!
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 02:32 PM   #28
underground
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North End
Posts: 2,386
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

If I'm remembering my history correctly, Flynn set them up (or at least empowered them) when he was mayor.
underground is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 03:53 PM   #29
elemenoh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 239
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

It's important to note the origins of the Beacon Hill Civic Association:
"The Beacon Hill Civic Association was formed in 1922, largely at the prompting of political activist and “life-long crusader for good government” Marian Nichols, a feisty ‘street fighter’ who organized neighbors and stormed City Hall to protest the city’s decision to pave the brick sidewalks."
Those sidewalks have a lot of symbolic meaning to residents of Beacon Hill.

Last edited by elemenoh; 08-15-2014 at 03:55 PM. Reason: typos
elemenoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 10:04 PM   #30
matredsoxfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

New handicap ramp on Moody Street in Waltham https://www.flickr.com/photos/25664139@N06/14775033258/ This is they way all handicap ramps should look.
matredsoxfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 08:31 AM   #31
cden4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,040
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

There has been a lot of inaccurate or incomplete reporting on this issue. The one thing that seems to get lost a lot is that in all the other historic neighborhoods with brick sidewalks the city is putting red/brick colored pads instead of the yellow ones that they use on the all-concrete sidewalks elsewhere. The city plans to do the same in Beacon Hill.
cden4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 01:18 PM   #32
AmericanFolkLegend
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,118
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by cden4 View Post
There has been a lot of inaccurate or incomplete reporting on this issue. The one thing that seems to get lost a lot is that in all the other historic neighborhoods with brick sidewalks the city is putting red/brick colored pads instead of the yellow ones that they use on the all-concrete sidewalks elsewhere. The city plans to do the same in Beacon Hill.
Charlestown doesn't have red pads (at least near where I live - close to Warrant Tavern and the Monument).
AmericanFolkLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 03:43 PM   #33
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,577
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanFolkLegend View Post
Charlestown doesn't have red pads (at least near where I live - close to Warrant Tavern and the Monument).
And that is a pretty historic part of Charlestown!

Sounds like the City uses what it has on hand at the time of the project?
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2014, 08:43 PM   #34
Jason
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 24
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by matredsoxfan View Post
New handicap ramp on Moody Street in Waltham https://www.flickr.com/photos/25664139@N06/14775033258/ This is they way all handicap ramps should look.
The ramps are not for only those with mobility issues... They are also for the visually impaired. That is why there needs to be contrast. Thus the brick red tactile panel.
Jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:42 AM   #35
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,435
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

MassDOT gets sucked into the vortex of the BHCA's case of the vapours: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...WUO/story.html

Now they want the state-installed ramps in front of MGH torn up and replaced despite the BHCA approving the materials 2 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Davey (paraphrased)
Bite me.
(To be fair, he was considerably more diplomatic in actual response than Mayor Walsh was.)
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:35 PM   #36
matredsoxfan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Granite, they seriously want granite for the warning panel. Are you serious right now? What a bunch of rich entitled jerks.
matredsoxfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 01:57 PM   #37
davem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Assembly Square
Posts: 2,262
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

In their defense, Cambridge uses cast stone (in both red and "granite" grey), as well as rusting steel. It looks fantastic, and feels more durable than the plastic Boston is insisting on (which bubbles up and breaks, I've seen/felt this quite a few times). IIRC, the BHCA offered to pay for the difference in material costs. But the city wants no part it.

Tearing up what was already done at Charles Circle is beyond stupid though. First of all that intersection is already an unhistoric aesthetic disaster, if anything the ramps are making it look better. Second, its already installed. The neighborhood association is rightfully distancing themselves from this loon.
__________________
FP10 on railroad.net
Flickr Photostream
Designs
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 02:02 PM   #38
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,435
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Quote:
Originally Posted by davem View Post
In their defense, Cambridge uses cast stone (in both red and "granite" grey), as well as rusting steel. It looks fantastic, and feels more durable than the plastic Boston is insisting on (which bubbles up and breaks, I've seen/felt this quite a few times). IIRC, the BHCA offered to pay for the difference in material costs. But the city wants no part it.

Tearing up what was already done at Charles Circle is beyond stupid though. First of all that intersection is already an unhistoric aesthetic disaster, if anything the ramps are making it look better. Second, its already installed. The neighborhood association is rightfully distancing themselves from this loon.
It's also the state this time, not the spat with the city. MassDOT has jurisdiction of the immediate Circle because Route 3 clips it. He's protesting a decision where they were already asked and gave approval for the concrete + red plastic!
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 04:26 PM   #39
davem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Assembly Square
Posts: 2,262
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

I noticed this out of the corner of my eye and did a skidding 180 while riding around today. Lo and behold, Boston does have rusting-steel tactile strips. Allston library:



These would contrast just fine with brick in Beacon Hill. Really, they should be the standard everywhere, since the material has been proven to be durable for every other thing implanted into the sidewalk.
__________________
FP10 on railroad.net
Flickr Photostream
Designs
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 06:09 PM   #40
Galactic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Beacon Hill
Posts: 200
Re: Beacon Hill Civic Association sues to stop installation of sidewalk ramps

Yeah I don't agree with the crazies that want solid gold tactile strips or whatever, but as someone who lives in Beacon Hill I can definitely see where they are coming from in terms of preserving the feel and aesthetics of the community. Most permanent residents in BH spend an inordinate amount of time with flower planters, small landscaping projects, tiding up their sidewalk, etc. The condition of the sidewalks is obviously pretty bad in most places, but I still think that the whole neighborhood would look bad with concrete and plastic corners, especially considering how many there are in such a small area.

I like the idea of rusted steel - just embed them into the existing sidewalks and call it a day.
Galactic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Academic Building @ Suffolk U | 20 Somerset Street | Beacon Hill kz1000ps Development Projects 477 11-03-2015 12:57 PM
Former Grampy's Gas site | 290 Cambridge Street | Beacon Hill Mike Development Projects 72 07-17-2015 10:24 AM
Suffolk University Moving off Beacon Hill for Downtown BostonUrbEx Development Projects 33 11-12-2010 10:44 PM
Verizon Fios Installation caravaggiste General 5 11-11-2008 11:10 PM
Beacon Hill Historic Architectual District expansion plan statler Boston Architecture & Urbanism 14 02-29-2008 07:49 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.