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Design a Better Boston Are you disappointed with the state of Boston's current architecture/development? Think you have a better idea? Post it here.

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Old 04-23-2015, 08:46 PM   #21
Max Power
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

what a boring track for Boston

should be something around the waterfront at least, not rolling around the ass end of that white elephant
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:52 PM   #22
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

I'm reading up on the Baltimore race, right now. Went 3 years; first year a failure due to questionable expenses and deficit left for the city & state to pay off, second year better due to new company in charge (actually, the third), under Michael Andretti's control, but smaller crowd. Third year apparently a success, but canceled for 2014 and 2015 due to "scheduling conflicts"?

Here's the 2011 circut, courtesy of Wikipedia



"Baltimore Grand Prix circuit" by Spyder_Monkey - Own work, modified data from Open Street Map. Licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0 via Wikimedia Commons - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ix_circuit.png
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Old 04-23-2015, 09:05 PM   #23
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

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With Bernie Ecclestein being the current owner of F1, tracks have to make huge payments to F1 Management to get a race, in the 10s million dollar range.
I don't believe we're talking about an F1 Grand Prix here, this would be IRL, possibly with a Saturday TUDOR event and other smaller events for the race weekend. Similar to the lineup of the now defunct Baltimore Grand Prix. Costs are still significant, but far lower than F1, which is just silly $$$.

I attended the first BGP, it was a pretty incredible experience. The noise is like nothing you've ever heard in your life (including other races at a traditional track). The Indycars wide open on the front straight made enough noise that you couldn't hold a conversation inside a restaurant on Pratt Street with all windows and doors closed. The wait staff was wearing earplugs.




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Old 04-23-2015, 09:22 PM   #24
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

Last post until others chime in.

According to a quote in the Baltimore Sun, noise can reach 140 decibels, "about the same level as the noise on the deck of an aircraft carrier or being 50 feet behind a jet airplane at takeoff".

Regarding Grand Prix circuit lengths - the circuits can apparently be different lengths? I'm seeing anything from 2.04 miles (Baltimore) up to 3.5 miles or so?

The proposed Boston circuit would be just 1.3 miles?

When I attempt to figure out how much area was taken up by the Baltimore circuit, I get something like 74 acres of land (encompassing both the Baltimore convention center ... and Camden Yards ...) whereas the proposed Boston route (encompassing the BCEC) only comes up to around 42 acres. That's the circuit, only, not entertainment and restaurant venues.

Much smaller?



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Old 04-24-2015, 10:22 AM   #25
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

So there's a lot here to digest.

I went to Baltimore in 2012 and 2013 (photos here and here) and it was a great experience. Admittedly, I'm a huge IndyCar fan, so hearing the cars from down the block echoing off the buildings was incredible. What killed the race in 2014 was scheduling conflicts with the Ravens and Orioles, who's stadiums and lots were used as part of the setup. That killed the momentum and everyone pretty much knew the race was dead from that point.

IndyCar runs both F1-style road/street circuits and traditional American ovals, the shortest of which is Iowa Speedway at 3/4 of a mile. The proposed Boston layout looks almost like an oval, which may seem too simple, but the long straights and sharp corners make every turn a passing opportunity. This is not unprecedented, the 1991 Meadowlands Grand Prix had a similar pseudo-oval setup -

I would also remind everyone that the most famous race in the series takes place on a
giant rectangle.

One more thing to take into account, they could theoretically use the back lot behind the BCEC for additional corners if need be. In theory, I like the track - none of the blocked streets are major arteries, and they can use Congress St. to divert traffic coming from the Pike onto the Haul Road. The amount of area the race would take up in the infield of the track is largely a non-issue with the convention center, that would become the bulk of the paddock. The service roads along the edges of the buildings would be perfect pit lanes. There's plenty of space along the Haul Road and D Street for grandstands. The location minimizes the local businesses and residences the race would directly affect. And the subsequent course construction and disassembly would be minimal compared to a long, winding street circuit like Baltimore.

So far, everything seems reasonable, but I was born and raised in Southie and I know how this is going to play with the neighborhood. Hoping against hope it goes through...
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Old 04-27-2015, 02:40 PM   #26
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

Not sure why you'd want to see them, but I took some photos of the proposed route for next Labor Day's Grand Prix race.


Comes down South Boston Bypass Road


After the curve near the Convention Center, left lane only


The Convention Center and Summer Street up center, World Trade Center boulevard left


Under the Convention Center


Coming out from under Convention Center toward D Street (437 D Street condos to right)


Looking back at exit from under Convention Center


D Street
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:56 PM   #27
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

I have to wonder if they'll be willing to take out the islands where the Pike east exits onto Haul Road. I suppose you could leave the one nearest to the convention center and have the drivers square off the turn, but if you took that one out you'd get a high speed arc that would lead to a heavy braking area for the right under Summer Street, which would create a decent, if risky, passing opportunity.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:09 PM   #28
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

I wonder if road/street ownership has something to do with the route. I don't know who owns what but are they trying to stay off MassPort / BRA (EDIC) roads and stay on city-owned roads? Otherwise, why not use Summer Street or more of the neighborhood where it's more industrial, like in the Marine Park?
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:59 AM   #29
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

http://www.bostonherald.com/business...labor_day_2016

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Old 05-20-2015, 01:05 PM   #30
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com...hle-next-year/

11 turn, 2.3 mile circuit, so the Fort Point proposal might not have been fully fleshed out?
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Old 05-21-2015, 09:44 AM   #31
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

D Street today: https://twitter.com/Dee_Marketing/st...866624/photo/1

Wish I was still in Southie today...
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Old 05-21-2015, 02:50 PM   #32
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

MAP!


From https://twitter.com/MartyMcFLYS/stat...59528769544192
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:34 PM   #33
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

So, no Silver Line that weekend then?
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:37 PM   #34
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

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So, no Silver Line that weekend then?
They can still loop at Silver Line Way. They'd be running *right* next to a dangerous/narrow S-curve though. Better be a good wall there!
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forget it ever happening, its too great an idea.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:19 PM   #35
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston



http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/05/...vent-in-Boston
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:20 PM   #36
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

So there's no official press release from City Hall? Bizarre. Can you imagine that happening under Czar Menino?
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Old 05-21-2015, 07:53 PM   #37
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

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Under the Convention Center
First of all, that curb is going bye bye, otherwise there are going to be some terrible accidents in there.

Secondly, I am really happy with the course. By using the massport haul rd as much as they do they keep summer street open for traffic. That and world trade center ave will make pedestrian movement around the course easy. If they loop the busses at silverline way this course will have excellent access to public transit. The only real problem I see is the curbing down the center of Congress St and D st, they will probably just make the course really narrow there.

And just like baltimore you can get car jumps over a railroad crossing at Cypher and S Boston Bypass!


Also, I really hope they don't put the start/finish on D st. It will ruin the trees and the park there. There is all sorts of room on S Boston bypass for grandstands and pits, and on that side you can get some nice shots of the boston skyline.

EDIT: just saw that the map posted by Arenacale is wrong, the one on the indycar website has the Start on S Bypass, YAY. The one Arenacale posted has the start and finish in two different places? Is there actually any race that does that???

Last edited by Mongo; 05-21-2015 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:57 PM   #38
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

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EDIT: just saw that the map posted by Arenacale is wrong, the one on the indycar website has the Start on S Bypass, YAY. The one Arenacale posted has the start and finish in two different places? Is there actually any race that does that???
The map on their website has the Start & Finish as two separate locations as well. I have been to races at Loudon, NH; Sebring, FL; Lime Rock, CT; & Daytona, FL (plus seen most of the rest televised). Start/finish is always the same place.

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Old 05-22-2015, 01:10 AM   #39
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/boston...ace-1706096981

I recommend earplugs. I liken it to pressing your ear to the maroon grill cloth of a Fender Showman while Dick Dale plays "Pipeline" at 10 with the Presence knob maxed and while he gives an occasional kick to the reverb tank.

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Old 05-22-2015, 09:02 AM   #40
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Re: A theoretical Grand Prix of Boston

Well thank goodness we built that freakishly wide speed trap of a Seaport street grid or else we wouldn't be able to have this novelty once every year or three, unless it loses too much money.
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