1885 Subway Construction Cave-in?

Justin7 · 08-31-2009, 12:27 PM

Does anyone have any information concerning a subway construction cave-in in 1885. I know nothing except that there was at least one fatality.

vanshnookenraggen · 08-31-2009, 02:30 PM

Unless you can be any more specific all I can tell you is there was no subway construction going on in 1885. The subway wasn't started until 1894 and opened in 1897.

Justin7 · 08-31-2009, 03:44 PM

I don't know. A relative sent me a family history that has an ancestor of mine dying in a subway construction cave-in in 1885. I found it interesting and decided to look into it a little more, but clearly there has been a mistake.

It's possible that the year is wrong as this has his widow remarrying in 1898 and 13 years does seem like a long time for a woman to be on her own (and caring for a child) in the 19th century.

I suppose it's also possible that it wasn't actually subway construction, but some other project. I think the bay was being filled in at this point and perhaps it was somehow related to that.

I have very little to go on, but thank you.

tobyjug · 08-31-2009, 03:58 PM

Stack of protest petitions at a pre-construction NABB meeting fell over and crushed someone.

Ron Newman · 08-31-2009, 04:10 PM

In some places 'subway' is used to mean a pedestrian underpass rather than a tunnel for trains. Is that possible here?

tobyjug · 08-31-2009, 04:40 PM

I wonder what ancient pedestrian underpasses were out there? The old smuggler tunnel in the North End is the only one I can think of!

vanshnookenraggen · 08-31-2009, 04:42 PM

Could they mean the Boston sewer system? When was that built?

tobyjug · 08-31-2009, 04:43 PM

Funny. I was just thinking something like that...the water system. Some of those tunnels have to be big and old.

P.S. Just looking at Hoosac Tunnel history, on the thought that "Boston" and "Mass" might have meant the same thing to someone. There were a lot of deaths in that project, but I couldn't pin anything to 1885.

dshoost88 · 08-31-2009, 05:22 PM

Here's a couple possibilities I've concocted:

A) It's a misprint--perhaps your ancestor died in 1895 during the actual subway construction... that would've left 3 years where his widow was a single mother before marrying. That seems quite realistic.
B) That pedestrian tunnel theory could be plausible, or perhaps even tunneling for the commuter rail. Were there ever any tunnels for the commuter rail(s)?
C) Pneumatic tubing--apparently thousands of yards of pneumatic tubing was laid under the city during the nineteenth century. Maybe miners had to go underground to lay it all.

Just some random guesses. Sorry if I'm out of line.

JohnCostello · 08-31-2009, 11:27 PM

The Megis Transit system, an experimental type of elevated train was built around that time in Cambridge. It was a steam train that wrapped around a monorail. Might be a possibility.

JohnCostello · 08-31-2009, 11:28 PM

Also, wasn't the sewer tunnel from Columbia Point out to Moon Island built around that time?

vanshnookenraggen · 08-31-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCostello

The Megis Transit system, an experimental type of elevated train was built around that time in Cambridge. It was a steam train that wrapped around a monorail. Might be a possibility.

It was all elevated and there was only a small test loop built.

vanshnookenraggen · 08-31-2009, 11:41 PM

Are you sure this relative lived in Boston? I ask because there were train tunnels being dug under the Hudson River between NJ and NYC at that time which, after the cave in, were abandoned, only to be later salvaged (don't quote me on this) for the Hudson & Manhattan system, better known today as PATH.

Justin7 · 09-01-2009, 10:18 AM

Thank you for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm not really sure about anything. The record I'm looking at is poorly sourced. It looks like I'm going to have to some real research when I get a chance if I actually want to figure this out.

08-31-2009, 12:27 PM	#1
Justin7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 720	1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Does anyone have any information concerning a subway construction cave-in in 1885. I know nothing except that there was at least one fatality. __________________ "You cannot take in a whole Boston street with a single glance of the eye and then lose your interest because you have thus taken the edge off future discovery; on the contrary, every step reveals some portion of a building which you could not see before, some change in your vista, and some suggestion of pleasant variety yet to come, which not only keeps your interest alive but heightens it and persuades you to go on."

08-31-2009, 02:30 PM	#2
vanshnookenraggen Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 4,589	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Unless you can be any more specific all I can tell you is there was no subway construction going on in 1885. The subway wasn't started until 1894 and opened in 1897. __________________ http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com \| http://futurembta.com brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play

08-31-2009, 03:44 PM	#3
Justin7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 720	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? I don't know. A relative sent me a family history that has an ancestor of mine dying in a subway construction cave-in in 1885. I found it interesting and decided to look into it a little more, but clearly there has been a mistake. It's possible that the year is wrong as this has his widow remarrying in 1898 and 13 years does seem like a long time for a woman to be on her own (and caring for a child) in the 19th century. I suppose it's also possible that it wasn't actually subway construction, but some other project. I think the bay was being filled in at this point and perhaps it was somehow related to that. I have very little to go on, but thank you. __________________ "You cannot take in a whole Boston street with a single glance of the eye and then lose your interest because you have thus taken the edge off future discovery; on the contrary, every step reveals some portion of a building which you could not see before, some change in your vista, and some suggestion of pleasant variety yet to come, which not only keeps your interest alive but heightens it and persuades you to go on."

08-31-2009, 03:58 PM	#4
tobyjug Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: downtown Posts: 2,311	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Stack of protest petitions at a pre-construction NABB meeting fell over and crushed someone.

08-31-2009, 04:10 PM	#5
Ron Newman Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Davis Square, Somerville, MA Posts: 7,914	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? In some places 'subway' is used to mean a pedestrian underpass rather than a tunnel for trains. Is that possible here?

08-31-2009, 04:40 PM	#6
tobyjug Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: downtown Posts: 2,311	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? I wonder what ancient pedestrian underpasses were out there? The old smuggler tunnel in the North End is the only one I can think of!

08-31-2009, 04:42 PM	#7
vanshnookenraggen Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 4,589	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Could they mean the Boston sewer system? When was that built? __________________ http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com \| http://futurembta.com brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play

08-31-2009, 04:43 PM	#8
tobyjug Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: downtown Posts: 2,311	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Funny. I was just thinking something like that...the water system. Some of those tunnels have to be big and old. P.S. Just looking at Hoosac Tunnel history, on the thought that "Boston" and "Mass" might have meant the same thing to someone. There were a lot of deaths in that project, but I couldn't pin anything to 1885. Last edited by tobyjug; 08-31-2009 at 04:59 PM.

08-31-2009, 05:22 PM	#9
dshoost88 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 446	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Here's a couple possibilities I've concocted: A) It's a misprint--perhaps your ancestor died in 1895 during the actual subway construction... that would've left 3 years where his widow was a single mother before marrying. That seems quite realistic. B) That pedestrian tunnel theory could be plausible, or perhaps even tunneling for the commuter rail. Were there ever any tunnels for the commuter rail(s)? C) Pneumatic tubing--apparently thousands of yards of pneumatic tubing was laid under the city during the nineteenth century. Maybe miners had to go underground to lay it all. Just some random guesses. Sorry if I'm out of line.

08-31-2009, 11:27 PM	#10
JohnCostello Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Marshfield Posts: 183	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? The Megis Transit system, an experimental type of elevated train was built around that time in Cambridge. It was a steam train that wrapped around a monorail. Might be a possibility.

08-31-2009, 11:28 PM	#11
JohnCostello Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Marshfield Posts: 183	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Also, wasn't the sewer tunnel from Columbia Point out to Moon Island built around that time?

08-31-2009, 11:41 PM	#13
vanshnookenraggen Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 4,589	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Are you sure this relative lived in Boston? I ask because there were train tunnels being dug under the Hudson River between NJ and NYC at that time which, after the cave in, were abandoned, only to be later salvaged (don't quote me on this) for the Hudson & Manhattan system, better known today as PATH. __________________ http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com \| http://futurembta.com brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play

09-01-2009, 10:18 AM	#14
Justin7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 720	Re: 1885 Subway Construction Cave-in? Thank you for all the suggestions, everyone. I'm not really sure about anything. The record I'm looking at is poorly sourced. It looks like I'm going to have to some real research when I get a chance if I actually want to figure this out. __________________ "You cannot take in a whole Boston street with a single glance of the eye and then lose your interest because you have thus taken the edge off future discovery; on the contrary, every step reveals some portion of a building which you could not see before, some change in your vista, and some suggestion of pleasant variety yet to come, which not only keeps your interest alive but heightens it and persuades you to go on."

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