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| General Architecture & Urban Planning All things architectural or urban in general, or withinin cities outside of Boston & Greater New England. |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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rikahlberg posted this on another thread but i dont think anyone took notice - i think it deserves its own:
"The subprime crisis is just the tip of the iceberg. Fundamental changes in American life may turn today?s McMansions into tomorrow?s tenements." http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime An interesting idea but 'fundamental changes' in culture may not be enough. The great majority of development is still in suburbs, and that is because it's possible there. Infill development is still hard because (1) it's not zoned for (2) it's resisted and (3) if it is zoned for, or rezoned for, or there is a variance, it's often saddled with other costs for the developer eg affordable housing and pocket parks somewhere. So the biggest fundamental change would be in zoning law, which I can't see happening, or in planning attitudes, which should recognize that unaffordability is foremost a question of supply. Beyond the suggestion that new suburbs may decline due to infill, this article does not suggest anything new. Suburban areas are hardly static, given an elastic regional housing supply. There has been a consistent trend for older suburban areas to decline as new areas open up. So what's so orignial here? Sam Warner documented this in "streetcar suburbs" in late 19th century Boston: how desirable middle class neighborhoods of Roxbury and Dorchester within 40 years became majority rental. It's been covered in Los Angeles by an endless list of geographers, Allen Scott and Michael Storper among them, in their studies of industry in the San Fernando Valley and Orange County. Yesterday's suburb is quite often today's slum. Most of the depressed urban neighborhoods in this country are rows of bungalows that were desirable middle class housing not so long ago. The San Fernando Valley - Brady Bunch land only 30 years ago - is now incredibly diverse, economically and racially. Panorama City - one of the most highly publicized mass-suburban developments of the postwar era in southern califronia - is now anything but a model of the American Dream. I bet a majority of socal's postwar development fits in that category. Notice all the examples he cited of suburban places with rising crime etc are in the sunbelt, the place with the elastic housing markets where there's always something to trade up for. For now, most of the growth is still going into suburbs, and so yes, some suburbs will decline, because others spring up. This has always been the case. Is it realistic to say that suburbs will decline because infill will spring up at a rate that accommodates a good share of our growth? Last edited by a630; 03-02-2008 at 05:35 PM. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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I totally want to talk about this cause I read it a while ago and actually showed it to my urban studies prof, but I can't right now.
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#3 |
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Senior Member
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But sometimes you go from desirable suburb to slum then back to desirability again, as tastes change. Somerville is a good example of this.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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yes, that happens all over the county. but look at what the article is saying and then think of what somerville really looks like. the article suggests that the desirability of urban areas may lead to the transformation of many suburban areas. that many suburban areas will change is inevitable; most have in the past. will it be because of gentrification? proving a relationship would at least require that urban areas are accommodating a significant proportion of regional growth. this is true in some places, but not for the reasons the article suggests. it is true of los angeles, where there has been more growth in the core urban areas of the county than in peripheral areas recently, or new york city, which has seen impressive growth. however this is because of foreign immigration and overcrowding of rental units (both of these cities, despite gains in housing production, are seeing increasing overcrowding rates). the production of immigrant slums in south and east LA, in the outer boroughs of New York. gentrification, the appeal of cities to the middle and upper class, a global creative class blah blah whatever you want to call it, does not account for a significant proportion of growth in urban areas or regionally.
so look at somerville. even as prices and the pressure for development increases, the population increases at an extremely slow pace or remains stagnant. even as the number of housing units increases the population does not increase. this article misses one of the fundamentals of gentrification: that it involves the consumption of more space per person. Boston has 200,000 fewer people than it did in 1950, but more housing units. And if it wasn't for foreign immigration and the overcrowding of remaining rental units, cities like Boston (still losing white population in absolute terms), New York, and Los Angeles, would all be losing population. All of these cities are an increasingly disparate landscape of ever-larger market rate units occupied by 1-2 people, and old, overcrowded rental units (i think 14% of the city of Miami fits into the middle income bracket), and they can only make up for a singificant proportion of regional growth when the latter is truly formidable as in LA or NY. a serious challenge to the current pattern of growth would require a rate of urban infill and redevelopment currently simply not legally permitted or culturally tolerated, the transformation of existing urban areas into truly unrecognizable places over the course of a decade. and i don't mean rehabs. today growth is something we still see mostly at the fringes. |
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#5 | |
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Quote:
I like this article because he presents ideas for how cities can fix themselves from the bottom up and not with flash in the pan development projects that go nowhere. I think this is a great strategy for places like Roxbury and Mattapan, and even cities like Lawrence, Fall River, New Bedford, etc.
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#6 |
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Senior Member
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Interesting article, though I'd question such characterizations as "Chicago's failing downtown" and "the failed state of Ohio".
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#7 |
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It does seem alarmist but if you can get past the hyperbolic adjectives he highlights some important problems facing older suburbs and presents some examples of what has been done in NY, namely just getting your shit together and being realistic.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 6,026
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Interesting. Surprised not to see Joel Kotkin referred to favorably, or Richard Florida denounced.
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#9 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 546
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The author reminds me of people who imply that they had no choice but to move out of the city; the banks were evil, the government corrupt- everyone's fault but my own. I think we should be honest with ourselves. I look back at my youth in the city with fondness but if you asked me when I was 16 if I would rather live there than a more comfortable suburb I would have laughed at the question.
Of course that wasn't the point and we cannot really compare suburban Chicago to suburban Boston because they are two different animals. Yet we could compare the New Hampshire suburbs in the sense that population has recently surged to the point where their very financial structure has been shaken to the core. For so many years NH has been this libertarian dream of low cost real estate and no income tax. This is only possible when you have a lot of land, a small population and are next door to a state like Massachusetts that has jobs. Real estate was so cheap that people would pay the MA income tax as well as the high property tax rates per thousand in NH because it was still a good deal. Now houses are more expensive meaning a local tax reassessment for $100,000 more in MA would mean an extra thousand dollars a year but up there that could be $2000-$3000 more. That is a tough nugget to swallow when you live in a town that has tripled in population but does not have modern services like full time police and fire as well as sewers and trash removal. |
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#10 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North End
Posts: 1,309
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I look back at my youth in the 'burbs with fondness, but if you asked me when I was 16 if I would rather live there than a more exciting city I would have laughed at the question.
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#11 | |
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Posts: 546
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Quote:
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#12 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North End
Posts: 1,309
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^ Totally agree. I think so much theory gets thrown around when talking about development, but one of the major points that gets overlooked is the simple fact that tastes change over time. I mean, at one point break dancing was cool, then it wasn't cool, now it's cool again. The history of human development in general is similar; we push out, we come back, and we push out again. The only difference in recent years is that cars and the country's general wealthy state has allowed us to move further. As tastes change again, and as we run our course with cars, and as we fall back to equilibrium in terms of general wealth, we'll probably all move back to the city... ane we'll all join break dancing troupes! Sweet!
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#13 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 546
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To follow that thought up; the actual reasons I moved out of the city was to live near my job and it was cheaper.
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#14 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
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I grew up in suburbs and now all I want is to live in the city. I went to college with this one woman who had lived in Charlestown her entire life and hadn't even been out the of the country (she was 26 at the time). She now lives with her finance out in Suffolk Co Long Island. When I found that out I couldn't for the life of me think why she would want to live out in the middle of nowhere. Then it hit me, she spent her entire life in a cramped apartment building, of course she wants to move out of the city and get a place with space.
Americans moved to the suburbs because they were tired of living in tight quarters in dirty cities. Now there is a generation of people who grew up in boring suburbs and are now moving back into the cities which they see as exciting and interesting. I'm sure my kids will probably move to the suburbs.
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http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com | http://futurembta.com brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brooklyn
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NB: this kind of cyclicality is not nearly as evident in other countries, even those where development laws don't restrict sprawl. Even if we admit fashion and taste has a lot to do with it, the fact that the postwar push to suburbia both coincided with an independent process of urban decay and helped speed and compound it was a unique concatenation of circumstances. In other words, even if our kids all want to live in the burbs, it probably won't be the death knell of the city.
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#16 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
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SIGNS OF SUBURBIA?S DEMISE (FINALLY)?
How to Save the Suburbs: Solutions from the Man Who Saw the Whole Thing Coming ![]() For a half century, it?s been easy to mock suburbia for being too comfortable, white-bread and conformist. That?s all changed in the last 18 months as many suburbs have abruptly taken on a sense of tragedy and desperation?a fact that underlies Obama?s trip to devastated Lee County, Florida, later today. Drug violence, gangs pillaging half-empty subdivisions for scrap metal, skateboarders reclaiming the pools of abandoned McMansions, and whole streets of dead lawns spray-painted green have emerged as the new symbols of life in the ?burbs. One man who foresaw all the ugliness is Christopher Leinberger. The Brookings Institute fellow and distinguished scholar of the suburban living arrangement has decades of experience in real estate development and urban planning. The meme of doomed suburbs went mainstream with his cover story for the Atlantic magazine last March, ?The Next Slum?? The problem, he says, goes much deeper than the foreclosure crisis. It?s part of a painful societal adjustment that will take a generation or more to work through. After heralding the crash of America?s predominant living arrangement, his latest efforts are devoted to showing how suburbs can adjust and reemerge as healthy communities. In this conversation he analyzes the roots of suburbia?s current plight and explains how three straightforward adjustments to infrastructure can save a community. The suburbs are really suffering. What?s the short-form diagnosis? Americans are undergoing a fundamental shift in where they want live, work, and play. So this is not just a normal cyclical downturn. We?ve structurally overbuilt retail, office, and housing, and we?ve done so in the wrong places. So where?s the bottom? Or, rather: Is there a bottom? It?s not a matter of waiting for two or three years to absorb the overproduction. It?s a matter of drastically reducing real estate prices to well below replacement cost. And when you sell something for below replacement cost ? that might sound like, well, ?Somebody takes a hit but life goes on as usual.? No, life doesn?t go on. For the owners of that retail or housing space, every dollar that they invest will be money they don?t get back. That is another definition of a slum. There?s no incentive to invest in a slum. So here you are. You buy a 4,000 square foot house 40 miles outside town. You think, wow, I got great value. But when the roof begins to go, you just patch it, because if you put a new one on it?ll cost $20,000, you?ll still be at the same selling price. So, why do it? You mentioned 40 miles outside town. Last year people were talking about high energy prices as the one of the prime causes of suburban collapse. But gas is back under $2 a gallon. Energy prices have nothing to do with it. I said that at the time. They can accelerate the process, but what drives it is the shift in consumer preferences. Gen Xers and Millennials want a lifestyle closer to Friends and Seinfeld (that is, walkable and urban) than to Tony Soprano (low density and suburban). It?s not that nobody wants Tony Soprano. About 50 percent of Americans actually do want that configuration. But if we?ve built 80 percent of our housing that way, that?s the definition of oversupply. The other 50 percent of Americans want walkable urban arrangements and yet that?s just 20 percent of the housing stock. That?s called pent-up demand. So the market is just responding. So rather than asking about a bottom, the better question might be: How long will it take for supply and demand to get back into equilibrium? Upwards of 30 years. In a good year we only add 2 percent to the built environment. So even if we only produced walkable urban product for the next 20 years, it would take that long to get caught up. That prognosis seems a tad glum. Give us some hope. How can a suburb save itself? It can adapt. The Washington DC metro area is a useful model. A year ago I came out with a survey for Brookings looking at walkable urban places in the top 30 metro regions. DC was at the top on a per capita basis. I imagine people are surprised to hear it?s not New York. New York ranked tenth. When that came out I actually got a phone call from the NY Post and they were pissed. But only 8 percent of metro New Yorkers live in Manhattan. Most of the other 92 percent are spread out over four states at a density lower than Los Angeles. Interesting. So what can DC teach us as an example? What we?re learning about the DC area is that there are 30 of these walkable communities here. I?m only talking about regionally significant places, not individual neighborhoods. So, for instance, downtown DC, Reston, Bethesda and so on. Of these places, 90 percent are on the metro system and most of the rest will be linked into it in the next five years. So that?s a pretty obvious correlation right there. But most of these walkable places are in the suburbs. What?s the lesson? This structural trend is about the transformation of the suburbs into something else. I?ve been doing some research looking at the price premiums on a per-square-foot basis for walkable communities. They get a price premium between 40 and 200 percent. I?ve also been looking at what I call the ?penumbra.? A walkable place is typically 50 to 500 acres in size. The penumbra, that area around it, can be even bigger. Almost like micro suburbs. Yes. These places are still suburban but they are within walking distance of the walkable places. This ?penumbra? is seeing premiums of 20 to 80 percent over the rest of the market. What?s an example? Look at Tyson?s Corner outside DC. It has that giant suburban mall ? 40 million square feet of retail and the largest suburban downtown in the country. It?s a traffic nightmare. They?ve been trying to get a Metro link that the Bush administration finally allowed to go through after years of trying to kill it. (The Bush people despised public transit.) The head of the neighborhood group that was involved in with this torturous three year planning process told me, ?I?ve seen Arlington.? Arlington is one of the great models in the entire country of a redeveloped suburban commercial strip. Arlington has tripled its square footage and traffic has gone down ten percent. The people in Tyson see that and they want it too. They want that kind of urban excitement. Plus there?s the incentive of protecting their property values. Well, I?m not sure they know that they?re feathering their nests financially. But once this kind of information gets out hopefully they?ll understand it?s not only a higher quality of life for them, it?s better financially. But Tyson?s Corner has a more lot going for it than, say, Lehigh Acres. What about those places that can?t adapt?will they just disappear? Well, they?re probably not going to bulldoze these places. Though that may happen at some point. I?ll just repeat from the Bible: There will always be poor among us. The only model we have is the ?50s and ?60s when the middle class decamped from center cities to the fringes. The poor got very good housing at very low prices. A lot of that housing was broken up into apartments. I was just talking to a reporter from a major newspaper the other day who is covering this same thing. He had been spending time out at the fringe and he was shocked to see house after house of unrelated single men living together there. They?re flop houses. But it?s tough to compare a brownstone in Brooklyn to the some house in the Antelope Valley made of particle board and paint. There will be losers. And, yes, this is junk we?re putting up now. What?s the life expectancy particle board and plywood under even the best of circumstances? So you have a suburb full of flimsy houses in the middle of nowhere, with no incentive for upkeep. That?s an ugly situation. Exactly. It fails. Good lord, I?m a great amateur student of ancient cities. At some point they?re just going to collapse upon themselves and blow away ? unless there is some massive redevelopment agency steps in. In very practical terms, how do towns get on the right side of this multi-decade imbalance between supply and demand? You need to get the right infrastructure in. Doing so is a three-step process. First, is getting a transit connection that can anchor a walkable urban core. Second, is putting in overlay zoning districts around the train stations that will allow for much greater density and mixed use development. We?re talking about a hundred, two hundred, three hundred acres. The third step is to get in place an entity to manage the thing, which generally takes the form of a non-profit business improvement district. These things are very complex, but we know how to do it now. We didn?t 50 years ago, but we do now. That?s a tight plan. And we have hundreds of examples of it working. Is there a resource where, say, one might be able to find all the compiled case studies? That?s my next book. Well, I?m sure you?ll have no shortage of interested readers. Thank you. http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009...er-leinberger/ * * * A RESPONSE: ? Roadrunner Says: February 10th, 2009 at 11:10 am I live in Arlington, VA?the county he mentions that tripled its square footage and dropped traffic by 10%. I assume that?s only the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor, and not the whole county, but still?that?s an amazing statistic. And I can confirm that it?s a fantastic place to live. My boyfriend and I don?t own a car, live three blocks from the Metro, and spend many a weekend going no further from home than a 15 minute walk. But that 15 minute walk includes dozens of (good!) restaurants, two grocery stores, a couple small concert venues that bring some great local bands, and lots of retail. And we?re a five minute Metro ride from the shopping mall at Ballston, which has a traditional department store and your more usual mall stores. And a five minute Metro ride from downtown DC. And a twenty minute morning commute on the Metro to our offices. And, unlike almost everywhere else in the country, my neighborhood is experiencing a construction boom. There?s a new Marriott hotel opening a couple blocks away, and five separate high rise apartment buildings going up within five blocks of my building. And I can?t wait for the new residents of those buildings to move in, because the more people who live close by, the more successful the local businesses will be, and the more diversity in retail our neighborhood can support. |
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#17 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: brooklyn
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A recent New Yorker piece (sadly not online) had similar things to say about the slumification of half-finished tract housing estates on the Florida Gulf Coast. I don't think we should get too caught up in schadenfreude when the enormous social problem of the poor moving into ever-shoddier housing with even fewer "eyes on the street" begins to plague the country. Thus far urbanism has moderated the problems of mass poverty; imagine them superimposed on the stretched infrastructure and crime-conducive form of the suburbs.
In any event here's another recent article on the phenomenon: Quote:
http://bostonreview.net/BR33.2/gecan.php |
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#18 |
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I knew I had read that article before (czsz) so I found the old thread and merged them.
I feel like this is something I was saying a while ago and when someone called me out on it I didn't have any proof. Well here is the proof. I like that this guy isn't some alarmist nut job; he knows things are bad but has solutions. And he isn't some one sided urbanist who thinks that everyone should live in a city. He understands that Americans have a choice and many prefer the suburbs.
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http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com | http://futurembta.com brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play |
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#19 |
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Senior Member
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The author is reading too much into his few examples. Sure, Lehigh Acres has collapsed but it really wasn't very good in the first place. I'll bet that suburbs in the Northeast will not have any problems, and will thrive (well, of course there's not much going on in them but nothing really will change) for the rest of the century. It is the overbuilt suburbs in the Sun Belt that are having the problems; suburbs in New England and the rest of the Northeast will probably experience no change for at least the next 10 years, and that's only if oil spikes again for a prolonged (5+ years over $4/gallon) period of time.
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#20 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,528
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