Jamaica Plain Centre/South streets redesign

[rikahlberg]

A couple of weeks ago at the dedication of a clock in JP Center, Mayor Menino announced that city would start a planning process to redeign Centre Street and South Street from Jackson Square to Forest Hills.

The first meeting of this effort took place last week at the Curley School in JP, and it was not so much a meeting as a workshop. There was lots of talk of "vision" for the street, but little discussion of what that vision could be. A number of people spoke up and said they'd like to see the street reclaimed for local users. And a clear theme throughout was to reprioritize the street for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit before cars.

From what I gathered, the "urban mechanic" approach will probably prevail: fix the sidewalks and dress them up with some brick edging, add curb bulbs where possible to shorten crossings, install a few of thoe "Big Belly" compacting trash cans, plant new trees at regular intervals, install acorn lamps, add some street furniture (benches, bike racks), and add some directional signage for the business districts.

Things I'd like to see that probably will never come to pass:
- a bike like or at least sharrows in the road
- parking meters
- historic markers and panels interpreting the 350-year history of Centre Street
- raised crossings at major pedestrian intersections
- removal of overhead traffic signals (put them all on the side)
- add some mid-block crossings (at Blessed Sacrament Church, at Sheridan Street
- install shelters at all of the #39 bus stops
- Add the #39 bus route to the MBTA system map and rechristen it the Arborway Line with a leafy Emerald Necklace color scheme.

It's fun to dream about improvements, but I expect we'll get fixed sidewalks and new lighting and not much else in the end.

[vanshnookenraggen]

Centre and South Streets have a really nice neighborhoody feel. The main thing they need to do is repave the streets. Adding some pedestrian safety enhancements like raised crosswalks or flared corners should be standard urban design at this point.

[jass]

Originally Posted by rikahlberg

- install shelters at all of the #39 bus stops

JCDecaux drops these off around the city for free (in return they charge for ads on the station).

I assume they chose locations based on ad revenue and not bus usgae.

[czsz]

(pipe dream) You're forgetting the return of the ARBORWAY TROLLEY (/pipe dream)

[Ron Newman]

Car traffic should be entirely removed from these streets, allowing the Green Line trolley to return. Move all of the car traffic to the Jamaicaway and/or Lamartine Street.

[vanshnookenraggen]

... which would completely kill all the business. Pedestrian malls work in certain places but shutting down the entire main street of a neighborhood will do irreparable harm, not to mention the community wouldn't go for it.

[Arborway]

As it is business complain about the prospect of trolley / bus shelters blocking their signs. The idea of trolley wires is anathema, as is the loss of even a single parking space to improve mass transit accessibility and lure untold numbers of riders.

There are militant bicyclists who find trolleys, articulated buses, trolley tracks and curb "bump outs" (to allow for trolley / bus stops to be ADA compliant) dangerous.

So Centre St / South Streets remain a parking lot with substandard mass transit.

[Ron Newman]

Not a pedestrian mall, a transit mall. Won't a lot of new shoppers come when the neighborhood is once-again easily reached by public transit?

[vanshnookenraggen]

More will be turned away by not driving through or being able to park on the street and run in.

[czsz]

Put it on stilts! Monorail now!

[kennedy]

Screw a monorail, we should get a Maglev.

[Whalehead King]

The city has pretty much done away with elevated rails, I'm not entirely sure why. I've ridden the El in Chicago and in Queens. Though they're not exactly pretty they are picturesque in thier urban way. That may be too hurly-burly and noisy for Jamaica Plain, but in a hundred years it could be an attribute that adds to the neighborhoods charm and convenience and property values. I admit I still wish the E line still ran as far as it used to. Was removing it a mistake? I don't know. I don't know if JP is busier now or then. It would be an interesting answer. I suppose people are married to thier cars, but the nieghborhood is now a bit more of an enclave than connected to the city center than it must have been. That, perhaps, is the reason trains won't return closer than the current Orange Lines, semi-convenient tracks.

[kennedy]

I'd have to agree that elevated rail is obsolete in the cities, however, elevated rail could be the answer to a national rail network (on the medians of the interstates?).

[czsz]

The problem with the national rail network is hardly the inability to find land to put track on.

[jenkins]

Originally Posted by kennedy

I'd have to agree that elevated rail is obsolete in the cities, however, elevated rail could be the answer to a national rail network (on the medians of the interstates?).

Wouldn't fly; trains can't handle hills. Existing rail lines, plus the odd modification (tunneling to avoid a winding mountain pass), are already at a good grade. On top of this, few interstates run through the town or city centers, something which most railways already do.

[Charlie_mta]

Elevated rail is alive and well, and growing, in American cities.

Seattle is building many miles of elevated light rail (light rail cars similar to Boston's Green Line). I would like to see systems like these placed above Washington Street through the South End to Dudley Square, and also along Comm Ave from the Kenmore portal out to the junction with Brighton Ave (where the A Line used to take off).

Google Street View along a freeway:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...897858322,,0,5

and along streets:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...878225414,,0,5

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...396424452,,0,5

[nico]

Charlie, can you elaborate on the drawbacks of a Maglev system? It has always sounded good to me.

Also, w/President Elect Obama talking about big $ for infrastructure projects, why is an extension of the Orange line down Washington St. as a subway out of the question? As an everyday rider of both the orange and silver lines it seems like there is plenty of demand, and I just absolutely despise the silver line.

[rikahlberg]

Originally Posted by czsz

(pipe dream) You're forgetting the return of the ARBORWAY TROLLEY (/pipe dream)

Not at all. I expect the bus stops to be reconfigured according to the recommendations made by the ARPAC group when restoration of the streetcars was being planned.

The Arborway Committee still has a suit pending, so the streetcars aren't dead yet.

I'd still prefer a cut-and-cover subway line, which would probably cost half of what the T wants to spend on the Silver Line tunnel monster and would serve more riders.

Anyway, it's high time that Center Street get rehabbed and made more ped and bike friendly.

[jass]

Originally Posted by rikahlberg

I'd still prefer a cut-and-cover subway line, which would probably cost half of what the T wants to spend on the Silver Line tunnel monster and would serve more riders.
.

You should take a look at some of the proposed tunnels for the green line extension. Even with cut and cover, tunnels rack up the billions very quickly

[czsz]

Also, w/President Elect Obama talking about big $ for infrastructure projects, why is an extension of the Orange line down Washington St. as a subway out of the question?

Why do I always get the queasy feeling that little of this money is going to find its way to Boston? At some point the federal government is going to get fed up funneling money here when other cities want to bury their freeways and lay out subway lines too. I wouldn't be surprised if Boston is still waiting for urban ring funding while every Winston-Salem or Reno gets light rail.