archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-25-2007, 01:51 PM   #1
pharmerdave
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brookline Ma
Posts: 77
Red Line / Blue Line Connector

I felt this topic deserved its own thread.

An Enviromental Notification Form has been filed with the Massachusetts Executive Office of Enviromental Affairs. This is the first step in building this must needed connection. If anything, this ENF proves that the Executive Office of Transportation is dead set on getting this done as they have set a timeline for this project.

The estimated commencement date is 2013 and the estimated completion date is 2017. The approximate cost is estimated to be between 242m and 302m.

The EOT has requested that a single enviromental impact review (SEIR) be done by April 2010. Final design would be completed by December 2011.

http://www.mass.gov/envir/mepa/pdffi...07em/14101.pdf
pharmerdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 02:29 PM   #2
vanshnookenraggen
Moderator
 
vanshnookenraggen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 6,116
Well thank God some progress is being made.

Edit: I think I know Stephen Woelfel. I talked to him about him working on the Silver Line and was pretty disappointed with how it came out. It made me realize that there still are people fighting the good fight.
__________________
http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com | http://futurembta.com | http://hyperrealcartography.tumblr.com
brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play
vanshnookenraggen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 05:21 PM   #3
chris
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Why does an Environmental Impact Review take almost 3 years to do?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 09:08 PM   #4
justin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 434
Don't hold your breath. The CLF settlement only requires the T to design the extension, and they're starting to fulfill that commitment by this filing. I don't expect a shovel of earth to be turned in the next few decades:

Quote:
...Final design will be completed by December 2011. For planning purposes it is assumed that construction would begin in 2013 and be completed in 2017, if a decision is made to advance the project...
Interesting they'd even consider maintaining Bowdoin, which would really be unnecessary. I guess it's bad manners not to consider any alternatives.

justin

(vvv thanks palindrome vvv)
justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 10:18 AM   #5
palindrome
Senior Member
 
palindrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,181
bowdoin station you mean?
palindrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2007, 06:22 PM   #6
whighlander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
SEIR Planning Horizon

Note that the SEIR Planning Horizon is stated to be 2030
That would tend to suggest that while they might do a design for the purposes of placating the CLF in 2011 -- that there is no sincere interest in doing the project in the foreseeable future.

Basically, all they want to do is promise to do a design

Its a bit like conceptual art -- you promise to do art of some kind

However, if you don't do the actual construction -- then what -- no one can do anything to enforce any commitment until the dates specified in the ENF have come and gone

In the meantime all the people involved will most likely have moved on to another job or retired.

I don't expect anything to happen -- this has been talked about since the Red Line Extensions in the 1970's

Westy
whighlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 11:48 PM   #7
Chris
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston
Posts: 98
Latest Courant

Quote:
Red Line Project Enters Traffic Jam

A project to connect the MBTA's Blue Line and Red Line might coincide with the rehabilitation of Storrow Drive, which could begin in 2010, according to a Department of Conservation and Recreation official.

While the state has made no promise to build the Red-Blue Line connector, which would extend the Blue Line under Cambridge Street to the Charles MGH Station, they are legally required to finish designing the system by 2011. If funding is procured, construction might start a couple of years later. The possibility of overlapping with the Storrow Drive rehabilitation depends on the duration of construction, which could take more than two years. In addition to Storrow Drive, the state has also acknowledgted the importance of fixing the Longfellow Bridge, the Cragie Dam and Cragie Drawbridge.

"It raises the larger question that all of the projects need to be phased," said State Rep. Marty Walz. "Certainly we know Storrow Drive and Longfellow Bridge will be done, and if the Red-Blue Line Connector is built, it certainly would have to be phased appropriately. . . . The alternative to not phasing these projects appropriately is not allowing traffic into Boston, and because the alternative is so wholly unacceptable, it's not a situation of 'it would be nice to phase these projects.' It is essential to phase these projects."

At an October 17 scoping session on the Red-Blue Line Connector, David Mohler of the Executive Office of Transportation (EOT) said that plans are preliminary and his agency is aware of the need to sequence the projects.

Malek Al-Khatib, a West End resident at the scoping session, said he is very concerned about the sequencing of the construction and also pointed out at the meeting that if the construction on the Red-Blue Line Connector had to be pushed off until after 2020 because of other transportation projects, the 2011 designs would be outdated.

however, Al-Khatib said despite those reservations he is very suportive of the project.

"We are definitely for this project because it helps ease the vehicular traffic on [Cambridge] Street, and encourages people more to use the train and the subway instead of cars, and that helps the environment."

Carrie Russell, an attorney with the Conservation Law Foundation, said that other construction projects like Storrow Drive or Longfellow Bridge make moving forward with the Red-Blue Line connector essential, so that commuters have alternative transportation methods. At the meeting she voiced her group's strong support for the project, citing a reduction of air pollution and increased convenience for commuters as potential benefits.

not everyone is enthusiastic. Some Beacon Hill and West End residents raised concerns that Cambridge Street, which has recently undergone a costly rehabilitation program, would have to be completely torn up to construct the 1,400 foot tunnel underground.

"[Cambridge Street] will be put back in the same condition," said Mohler, adding that EOT will try not to make the mistakes that delayed the current Cambridge Street project.

Some at the meeting were simply concerned about yet another noisy construction site in their backyard.

"I don't see the end of these projects," said Dan Oullette, a West End Civic Association board member. "I would like some kind of reassurance that I'm not living in some sort of construction combat zone. . . . There's a limit to how much I can tolerate. It's gotten to the point where I've got to go out of town to get some peace and quiet."
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2007, 11:25 AM   #8
palindrome
Senior Member
 
palindrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,181
I bet he drives his car out to natick for that peace and quiet.
palindrome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2007, 02:12 PM   #9
Roxxma
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South End, Boston
Posts: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Latest Courant

Quote:
Red Line Project Enters Traffic Jam

A project to connect the MBTA's Blue Line and Red Line might coincide with the rehabilitation of Storrow Drive, which could begin in 2010, according to a Department of Conservation and Recreation official.

While the state has made no promise to build the Red-Blue Line connector, which would extend the Blue Line under Cambridge Street to the Charles MGH Station, they are legally required to finish designing the system by 2011. If funding is procured, construction might start a couple of years later. The possibility of overlapping with the Storrow Drive rehabilitation depends on the duration of construction, which could take more than two years. In addition to Storrow Drive, the state has also acknowledgted the importance of fixing the Longfellow Bridge, the Cragie Dam and Cragie Drawbridge.

"It raises the larger question that all of the projects need to be phased," said State Rep. Marty Walz. "Certainly we know Storrow Drive and Longfellow Bridge will be done, and if the Red-Blue Line Connector is built, it certainly would have to be phased appropriately. . . . The alternative to not phasing these projects appropriately is not allowing traffic into Boston, and because the alternative is so wholly unacceptable, it's not a situation of 'it would be nice to phase these projects.' It is essential to phase these projects."

At an October 17 scoping session on the Red-Blue Line Connector, David Mohler of the Executive Office of Transportation (EOT) said that plans are preliminary and his agency is aware of the need to sequence the projects.

Malek Al-Khatib, a West End resident at the scoping session, said he is very concerned about the sequencing of the construction and also pointed out at the meeting that if the construction on the Red-Blue Line Connector had to be pushed off until after 2020 because of other transportation projects, the 2011 designs would be outdated.

however, Al-Khatib said despite those reservations he is very suportive of the project.

"We are definitely for this project because it helps ease the vehicular traffic on [Cambridge] Street, and encourages people more to use the train and the subway instead of cars, and that helps the environment."

Carrie Russell, an attorney with the Conservation Law Foundation, said that other construction projects like Storrow Drive or Longfellow Bridge make moving forward with the Red-Blue Line connector essential, so that commuters have alternative transportation methods. At the meeting she voiced her group's strong support for the project, citing a reduction of air pollution and increased convenience for commuters as potential benefits.

not everyone is enthusiastic. Some Beacon Hill and West End residents raised concerns that Cambridge Street, which has recently undergone a costly rehabilitation program, would have to be completely torn up to construct the 1,400 foot tunnel underground.

"[Cambridge Street] will be put back in the same condition," said Mohler, adding that EOT will try not to make the mistakes that delayed the current Cambridge Street project.

Some at the meeting were simply concerned about yet another noisy construction site in their backyard.

"I don't see the end of these projects," said Dan Oullette, a West End Civic Association board member. "I would like some kind of reassurance that I'm not living in some sort of construction combat zone. . . . There's a limit to how much I can tolerate. It's gotten to the point where I've got to go out of town to get some peace and quiet."
And they're surprised? Seriously, what passes as news as of late in the Courant has become almost as petty and crappy as the Beacon Hill Times.
Roxxma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 04:42 PM   #10
JohnAKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,147
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Another MBTA project in the works

Posted on March 23, 2009 by Auditi Guha
Filed Under General, MBTA, State Politics, That's Odd, Tough Day |

Quote:
The MBTA is reportedly working to connect the Blue and Red lines at Charles MGH. IF it?s to give us better access to the airport, the Silver Line bus from South Station has already taken care of that and no one does the red-orange-blue to get to the airport any more (unless you live on the orange or blue line I guess), so I don?t see the point of this.

Would be nice if they concentrated their money and time on ongoing projects like the Green Line Extension and solving disputes like the placement of the maintenance facility in Inner Belt instead of coming up with additional ones in this economy.

Anyway, the first Project Working Group meeting will be held on Tuesday, March 24, 4 - 6 pm in the Leverett Saltonstall Building, 2nd floor conference room, 100 Cambridge Street, Boston, according to an EOT press release.
Source: Town On Line

Last edited by JohnAKeith; 03-23-2009 at 08:01 PM.
JohnAKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 05:01 PM   #11
vanshnookenraggen
Moderator
 
vanshnookenraggen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 6,116
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

I'm sorry but this is not even worth reading. This blogger obviously has no idea (since they didn't do their homework) that this project has been proposed for some 25 years now and the MBTA has been trying to get out of doing it since the state mandated they build it in the 1990s. Journalism FAIL.
__________________
http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com | http://futurembta.com | http://hyperrealcartography.tumblr.com
brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play
vanshnookenraggen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 12:06 PM   #12
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,741
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Personally, I think instead of re doing the elevated station, they should have put it underground.

In any event, this wickedlocal has some comments. One person mentions that they should cancel the widening of 128 and the interchange fix to pay for this. I laugh at how this person feels that breakdown lane traveling on a major expressway is ok.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 12:20 PM   #13
Ron Newman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davis Square, Somerville, MA
Posts: 8,399
Send a message via AIM to Ron Newman
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

That person would be me. I think the Red/Blue connector has a lot more bang for the buck than restoring a breakdown lane on 128.
Ron Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 01:57 PM   #14
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,741
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Newman View Post
That person would be me. I think the Red/Blue connector has a lot more bang for the buck than restoring a breakdown lane on 128.
How do you figure? 128 is a major expressway in the Metro Boston area that currently is inadequate to handle rush hour traffic. Having people drive in the breakdown lane only adds to the mess. What happens when one is broken down and the breakdown lane is filed? The current project that is going to add a lane is much needed.

The red/blue connector really wont have that much of an impact. Those coming from Alewife, it is still faster for people to get off at South Station and take the silver line to the airport.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 02:26 PM   #15
Ron Newman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davis Square, Somerville, MA
Posts: 8,399
Send a message via AIM to Ron Newman
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

I don't understand why people keep mentioning the airport in conjunction with the Red/Blue connector. The airport is not the only purpose of the Blue Line. It also serves many other businesses, homes, and recreational areas.

The 128 widening project strikes me as wasteful because it really doesn't add any capacity at rush hour -- you'll go from 3 lanes + breakdown used as additional lane, to 4 lanes with no traffic in breakdown lane. The current experiment is surprising to people at first, but so are many other local traffic quirks (rotaries, concert parking on Storrow Drive, closing Memorial Drive in Cambridge on Sundays)
Ron Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 03:03 PM   #16
Beton Brut
Senior Member
 
Beton Brut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Orient Heights
Posts: 3,751
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Newman View Post
The airport is not the only purpose of the Blue Line.
That always chaps my ass too, Ron.

The rationale with this project was to create a more-or-less direct connection between Logan and our academic centers in Cambridge. It would also create an easier commute for folks to get from their homes on the North Shore to nodes of high-quality employment in Cambridge.

But Boston being Boston, we wasted some opportunities. Consider:

A "third tube" as part of the build for the Ted Williams Tunnel could have carried the Red Line (or a trolley) to Logan; a one-seat ride from the giant Braintree and Alewife garages

Don't terminate the Blue Line at Charles, build it out via Beacon Steet to Kenmore and beyond (re-purpose the D-Line, push to Harvard's science campus in Allston, or both).
Beton Brut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 03:24 PM   #17
PaulC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,617
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

About 20 years ago the T had a consultant look into connecting the red and blue line. The result was that there would be a net increase of about 12 riders a day. I'm sure this was bs but this would not be my first choice for a new project, there are too may areas without a good connection to downtown, Somervile, Chelsea, Lynn, west Dorchester, Roxbury, Everett. Somewhere I have a link to a map showing the T stops with a half mile radius circle at every station. This shows where the next push should be. I'll post it when I find it again, it has to do with Somerville's green or orange line stations.

The people who use 128 are tax payers too and deserve better roads. It always seems to be an us vs them scenario.**No one should ever be allowed to use the break down lane as a travel lane - ever. I've seen too many near accidents from this stupid policy. If you can't get you politicians to get your road widened then tough sit in traffic.
PaulC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 03:54 PM   #18
PaulC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,617
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

MBTA service map:
http://www.somervillestep.org/backgr...T_service.html
PaulC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 04:01 PM   #19
vanshnookenraggen
Moderator
 
vanshnookenraggen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 6,116
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

Fun Fact:

The "Blue Line" once actually connected to Charles/MGH. Back when the "Blue Line" was originally built (before it was labeled the Blue Line) it was a trolley tunnel that connected trolleys from Harvard Sq to Maverick Sq. Only after the tunnel was converted to heavy rail in 1924 was that service stopped. However until the 1950s the portal on Cambridge St was still used to transport Blue Line cars to the shops at Harvard Sq since the Blue Line didn't have car shops of it's own until the Revere Beach extension was built to Orient Heights (where the current car shops are).

But I do agree with PaulC that there are many other more deserving projects out there. The difference is between environmental justice and rider convenience. In a perfect world they would be connected but currently there are bigger fish to fry.
__________________
http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com | http://futurembta.com | http://hyperrealcartography.tumblr.com
brivx: well, my philosophy is: as designers, we make a good theater, we dont direct the play
vanshnookenraggen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2009, 04:11 PM   #20
JohnAKeith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,147
Re: Red Line / Blue Line Connector

How about an underground walkway between Green Line at Symphony to the Orange Line at Mass Ave?
JohnAKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue Line extension to Lynn PaulC Transit and Infrastructure 244 07-23-2017 03:13 PM
Red Line Construction JoeGallows Transit and Infrastructure 80 05-30-2010 11:07 AM
New Blue line cars. palindrome Transit and Infrastructure 59 06-06-2008 05:13 PM
Orange Line Elevated Line bosdevelopment Transit and Infrastructure 0 05-01-2007 10:01 AM
Imus out of line or not? Patrick General 18 04-17-2007 12:11 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.