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Old 05-26-2007, 01:18 PM   #41
singbat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablarc
Quote:
Originally Posted by singbat
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Originally Posted by ablarc
Agreed. NIMBYs need re-education so they can see with their eyes instead of with theories.
would that be reeducation through labor?
No, through enlightenment. Enlightenment is freedom from delusion.


For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
your allusions doth top mine own. and the sentiment is nobler. :-)
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Old 06-22-2007, 03:07 AM   #42
Mike
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Back Bay builder seeks OK for 19-story tower
By Thomas C. Palmer Jr., Globe Staff | June 22, 2007


Prudential Center owner Boston Properties Inc. yesterday asked the city's permission to raise the height of an office tower it plans to build at the Back Bay complex from 11 to 19 stories.

The new building would be 265 feet high, 110 feet taller than previously planned. The company had earlier won city approval for a 287,493-square-foot building at 888 Boylston St., to be built in front of the Prudential Tower. Yesterday, Boston Properties asked to increase the total square footage to about 439,000.

It would be the last office building for the Prudential Center complex.

The request is in keeping with a rush by developers around the city to build office space while the local economy remains strong and vacancies at top-quality addresses fall to near-record lows.

Richard L. Kiley, a member of PruPac, a city-appointed citizens' advisory group for Prudential Center development issues, said building height has always "been a tough sell."

He questioned whether the 19-floor request is a bargaining move by Boston Properties. "You ask for more, because whatever you ask for you know they're going to tone it down," said Kiley. "Maybe they want 15."

But Robin Brown, codeveloper of the luxury Mandarin Oriental Boston hotel and residences at the Prudential Center, was enthusiastic about the prospect. "I think the new office building's a great development for the Back Bay," he said.

Boston Properties executives had no comment.

If approved, the building would have 369,000 square feet of office space and about 51,000 for retail on two or three floors, with the remainder common space.

Also yesterday, Boston Properties said it has chosen Avalon Bay to build a 30-story, 200-unit residential apartment tower on Exeter Street, which also had been previously planned. That building would be 340 feet high.



Link
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:53 PM   #43
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Vital stats on the current version of 888 Boylston:


--Childs, Bertman, Tseckares architects (CBT). They also did the Mandarin, 111 Huntington and the Belvedere
--19 stories, 265 ft, 440k s.f.
--original proposal was 11 stories, 155 ft, 280k s.f.
--roughly 1600 workers, 232 parking spaces.
--retail on the first (contiguous with the new retail space in the Mandarin's west building), second, and potentially third floors (the BosProp representative alluded to a deal in the works with a major retailer that might require three levels).
--the entire building will be sheathed in glass, with the west, south and east facades using "high performance" glazing with extruded framing (mullions, whatever you call it) while the north facade will be sleeker (interior framing for a smooth look) and of higher quality.
--cars will use the East Ring Road entrance directly underneath the new enclosed bridge to access the parking area.

pictures of the renderings and schematics are coming..
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:58 AM   #44
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Banker & Tradesman
Quote:
Menino Calls for Tower Compromise
By Thomas Grillo
Reporter


The 19-story office tower proposed for 888 Boylston St.
at Boston?s Prudential Center is shown above in an artist?s rendering.


Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino wants the two sides debating over a proposed 19-story office tower for the city?s Prudential Center to settle their differences.

?If something could be worked out ? a compromise ? I?d like to see if there are opportunities to make it happen,? the mayor told Banker & Tradesman after listening to neighbors? concerns.

But even if the high-rise is downsized, the plan may fall short of winning residents? support.

At issue is Boston Properties? proposal for a 439,000-square-foot building at 888 Boylston St., between the Mandarin Oriental Hotel and the John B. Hynes Veterans Memorial Convention Center. During packed public hearings last fall, many Back Bay residents said the 19-story, glass-and-steel office tower is too tall, while others expressed fears of the impact on the historic neighborhood.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) approved the Boylston Street office building in 2002 at 11 stories. But the 287,000-square-foot high-rise was never built. Today, the developer is seeking city approval to add 8 stories to the design.

But the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay (NABB) has rejected any increase in height. Jacquelin Yessian, NABB?s chairwoman, declined to comment on Menino?s offer for a compromise. But in an op-ed column in The Boston Courant last year, she wrote that while the 11-story building called for in the master plan would be an asset to the Pru, ?we strongly oppose any building that would exceed this height.?

NABB has galvanized the support of other neighborhoods to oppose any added height. The group has coordinated private meetings to convince neighborhood associations represented on the Prudential Project Advisory Committee (PruPAC) to join them in opposition. The 41-member panel was established by former Mayor Raymond Flynn in the 1980s to advise City Hall on development projects at the Pru.

Elliott Laffer, PruPAC?s vice chairman and NABB?s representative on the committee, acknowledged that the neighborhood groups have met and excluded corporate representatives such as the Back Bay Association. ?If the meetings are for community organizations, why would we invite any other entities?? he said.

NABB?s efforts have paid off. Kathleen Emrich, a PruPAC member who represents the Ellis Neighborhood Association, said while the Boylston Street building will not directly impact her South End neighborhood, she is supporting NABB?s position.

?We have to stick together,? she said. ?This doesn?t directly affect our neighborhood, but we want to be supportive of the Back Bay where it will have the most impacts. There could come a time when a building does impact us and we would seek the support of other neighborhoods.?

Meg Mainzer-Cohen, president of the Back Bay Association and a PruPAC member, said meetings that exclude nonresidential members is contrary to the group?s mission.

?The point of PruPAC is to work together to reach consensus,? she said. ?It?s not helpful to have NABB organize resident groups to try to get everyone to walk in lock step. How would the residential groups respond if the business community did that??

On a compromise solution on the height, Mainzer-Cohen said she would be willing to consider it.

?I believe a 19-story tower would be a great addition to the Back Bay,? she said. ?But PruPAC?s goal is to seek what?s in the best interest of not just the neighborhood, but Boston?s economy, too.?

Michael A. Cantalupa of Boston Properties could not be reached for comment.
NLA

Last edited by statler; 02-12-2009 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:06 AM   #45
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

NABB has galvanized the support of other neighborhoods to oppose any added height. The group has coordinated private meetings to convince neighborhood associations represented on the Prudential Project Advisory Committee (PruPAC) to join them in opposition.

It never ceases to amaze me how much effort these people put into this silly opposition for a squat (albeit nice-looking) building, especially given the fact that they live in the shadows of the 2nd tallest building in New England.

I just want to get inside these people's heads to really figure out what their problem with height is.

New rule: If the city you live in has more than 500K people, keep your mouths shut or move to the suburbs.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:38 AM   #46
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Is this building setback from the street wall of the Mandarin and Hynes?
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:59 AM   #47
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Opposition to this building seems ridiculous, if you ask me. Opposition to height is almost always based on the "shadow menace". I lived on Comm Ave in Back Bay for years and never experienced these dreaded shadow casters.

Part of the appeal of living in a city is to actually be surrounded by buildings filled with people. I'd never want buildings that are way out of scale, but this building seems to offer a nice height transition from the Pru down to street level. Some of these NIMBYs ought to consider a nice lowrise in Randolph.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:04 AM   #48
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

^^ It's hard to tell from that angle. If it is, why would they do that? Is anyone (besides the NIMBYs) going to miss the little plaza in front of the food court if this building is completed? I have spent plenty of time in this area, yet the only time i can remember relaxing in that plaza is on a 7th grade Duck Tours trip (when they left from the Mandarin Oriental site). Just curious as to how often residents of the city use it (the tourists probably won't even know it existed once the building is completed).

I still am amazed that people want a 19 story building reduced (or eliminated) that sits right underneath a 52 story tower. I doubt it has anything to do with height, and these people are just against any sort of development. Boston NIMBYs and Cape Cod NIMBYs are no different (which is pathetic). Both want no development (and consequential increase in traffic) and want more open space all to themselves. Both will nitpick any thing that could even be considered a flaw by anyone (in this case, the crazy argument about height) and beat it to death.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:07 AM   #49
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Absurd...It really is incredible how meaningless zoning laws are in this city. It is so, so stupid. Even when a specific plan for a specific site is agreed upon the agreement is cast aside. I have no problem with an 18 story building at this site...the problem is that nobody in this town has the political will or wherewithall to acknowledge that the zoning code is fundamentally broken and needs to be COMPLETELY scrapped. The "Allowable" Floor Area Ratio of nearly every site in this city should be increased dramatically.

I recently looked at a development opportunity in Boston that you have all heard about...the JFK station site. It is a perfect example of what is wrong with zoning in this town. The current zoning allows for a maximum height of 45 feet and an FAR of 2. That's totally insane. This is a perfect place for density and height. The site is surrounded by a highway and a series of intersecting roadways. But guess what...a few years ago the Pappas family proposed a twelve story office building on the parking lot of the Shaws building and got blown out of the water by the "community" (which is located on the other side of the ELEVATED EXPRESSWAY). How does this make any sense??? So developers like me take a look at the site and say, screw it. Why would I go through all the risk and aggravation if there is zero guarantee that I can get a permit to justify the endeavor.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:16 AM   #50
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

WTF!!!

THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF HYPOCRISY. NABB lay down and died when it came to the Arlington Building, which is in a historically and aesthetically vital location that could be destroyed (in true BRA form) by the imposition of a Framingham clunker, yet they are the active group opposing a skyscraper amid a dozen other (dated, and in need of fresh blood) skyscrapers?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

And if they so clearly have clout as to stop the Pru's build-out, why don't they do anything about the Arlington Building?

I'll chain myself to that f&*$ing building if need be. This sort of BS makes my blood boil, and I won't stand for it.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:08 AM   #51
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

My little ps thing really says it all. I'm starting to think back bay nimbys are the worst ones. A 19 story building right next to a 60 story building and they want to pasionately fight it? Also, I went to Berklee and was up and down that street all the time. There arn't too many people living in that part of Boylston. They don't own the Back Bay, they have no arguement, they should all get some hobbies.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:14 AM   #52
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Write to them

http://www.nabbonline.com/

nabbinc@verizon.net

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Old 02-07-2008, 11:55 AM   #53
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

hahahaha this is as ridiculous as it is typical
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:02 PM   #54
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

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Originally Posted by bdurden View Post
Is this building setback from the street wall of the Mandarin and Hynes?
Yes, by about 60 to 80 feet.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:15 PM   #55
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

I was doing a google streetview "walk" down Boylston today to gauge how this building fits in, and I was struck by the building on the corner of Clarendon and Boyslton - it's like 12 stories, black, modernistic and horrible! How did that thing end up there?? It's right at the corner of Copley Square, I think it has a Citizen's Bank in it. It is like a mini One Boston Place.

Boylston Street has a wierd cacaphony of sizes and styles. I think a 19-story tower in front of the 60-story Pru is absolutely fine.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:37 PM   #56
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

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Originally Posted by pelhamhall View Post
...I was struck by the building on the corner of Clarendon and Boyslton - it's like 12 stories, black, modernistic and horrible! How did that thing end up there?? It's right at the corner of Copley Square, I think it has a Citizen's Bank in it. It is like a mini One Boston Place.
That building, and much of that block is either compromised by unsympathetic modifications to older buildings, or is simply utter crap. In the Shreve's thread, I suggested Drucker move his plan from Arlington to this location...
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:59 PM   #57
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Is this association just a bunch of old bored people that complain about everything because they have nothing else to do? Do they give some reasons as to why they oppose this? (the old slippery slope argument?) I mean, I just don't understand.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:28 PM   #58
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Er. I don't understand. The site is approved for 11-stories. Why should the developer get to build 19?

So, you are all basically saying, let's just spend hours and hours working toward an agreement, then just throw it aside when someone wants something different?

Odd, that.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #59
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

Really: are the 8 extra stories worth it? I'd rather trade them for a consistent streetwall.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:07 PM   #60
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Re: 888 Boylston Street

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Originally Posted by JimboJones View Post
Er. I don't understand. The site is approved for 11-stories. Why should the developer get to build 19?

So, you are all basically saying, let's just spend hours and hours working toward an agreement, then just throw it aside when someone wants something different?

Odd, that.
Times change. Economics change. Steel prices change.

Its next to the pru, why is 19 too tall?
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