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Old 10-14-2006, 08:13 PM   #21
gravedigger4444
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The way it looks on that map, I would have liked to see those lines branches of the Orange Line instead of the Green Line(s) (if that were possible). Also, maybe in the future, the Union Square Branch could be extended to Porter Square (Red Line connection).
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Old 10-15-2006, 03:27 AM   #22
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Once the Union Square branch is built that is an obvious idea for an extension -- but the Fitchburg Line right-of-way becomes very narrow as you continue west towards Porter Square. It doesn't have room for four tracks on the surface.
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Old 10-15-2006, 06:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Newman
Once the Union Square branch is built that is an obvious idea for an extension -- but the Fitchburg Line right-of-way becomes very narrow as you continue west towards Porter Square. It doesn't have room for four tracks on the surface.
How far could it go before the space thins? Maybe one more stop after Union? Something to fill in that area
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Newman
that is an obvious idea for an extension -- but the Fitchburg Line right-of-way becomes very narrow as you continue west towards Porter Square. It doesn't have room for four tracks on the surface.
So put two tracks below the surface or elevate them. In Boston the difficult becomes the impossible.
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Old 10-16-2006, 09:32 AM   #25
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Anyone interested in the Green Line extension should attend a public hearing tonight at 6 pm at Somerville High School.
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Old 10-18-2006, 02:59 PM   #26
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Why is Union to Porter Green Line service a good idea?

There seems to be a lot of support here for an extension of the Green Line from its proposed terminus at Union Square to Porter. Do people here really view this as an important investment? The distance between the two stations is less than a mile and a half, and a Red Line rider entering Porter from the north today can already get to North Station via a transfer at Park Street in 19 minutes. Any time savings from a Union to Porter extension would be for those traveling to Union, Lechmere or Science Park stations. And good bus service already connects Porter travelers to the first two destinations (and barely anyone is traveling to the third). This proposed extension would probably signal a big reduction in service on the 87 bus route, which means the new situation would be worse for anyone with mobility concerns living along the Somerville Ave corridor not living adjacent to a new station.

I guess in a world of unlimited money to spend on transit, closing a one mile gap in rail service here is attractive. But given that we live in a world where choices need to be made, is this even among the metro area's top 100 transit priorities?

I will agree with the comment that a tunnel between Union and Porter is "difficult" and not "impossible". However, it should be added that such a tunnel is also "lunacy" given the current state of federal funding for transit investments and the region's many other real transit problems.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:11 PM   #27
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I see this as an issue for the next generation. Once the Union Square branch is built, and people gradually adjust their living and transportation patterns, the demand for a connection to Porter or Davis may become more evident. Right now, let's just build the Union Square branch.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:15 PM   #28
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It just bothers me to see a line terminate before connecting to other nearby routes. One example is the Blue Line, but that is of course worse because it doesn't connect to the Red at all. And the Silver Line which doesn't connect to the Blue Line. The Porter Green Line connection would link Union and Lechmere with Davis, Harvard, and other places. Ideally, with Porter as a sort of outer hub, the whole area could have some higher density with the parking lots built on. Also, just imagine living in Union next to a train station, but if you want to get to another train station a couple miles away you have to take quite a roundabout route. I'd really like to see projects like this done in a more complete way that don't call for major future corrective expansion, like the Urban Ring, to deal with gaps and a lack of intuitive connections.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:31 PM   #29
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Right now the most we can ask is to build this in a way that doesn't preclude the logical future extension. But don't let the best be the enemy of the good.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:35 PM   #30
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I agree totally with the merits of a Blue-Red Connector. But the Davis people can already get to Union and Lechmere on two existing, fairly high frequency bus routes. Its not clear that a two-seat ride on rail for the Davis-Union trip is better than the one-seat bus ride. And hopefully the person in your Union Square example has gone online and is aware that Porter is a short bus ride away (if riding the Green Line into downtown and transferring to the Red was his only way to get to Porter, he'd be understandably annoyed). Union is well connected to most of its neighbors--Inman, Central, Sullivan, Lechmere, Porter, Davis, and Harvard--already by pretty good bus service. It is the link to downtown that is the great weakness in Union, and the one that is most difficult to serve adequately by bus (given the roadway congestion between Union and downtown). This weakness would be remedied by the Green Line extension. I agree with Ron's point on keeping options open.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:20 PM   #31
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Re: Why is Union to Porter Green Line service a good idea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont square
o people here really view this as an important investment? The distance between the two stations is less than a mile and a half.
I believe every station should be connected to at least four other locations.



That, and having a connection would look pretty on a map.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:59 PM   #32
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What pisses me off the most about transit planning in Boston in general is that doing it on the cheap (i.e. on existing ROWs) seems to trump any other planning consideration. In this particular case, I don't know Somerville well enough to decide whether the Lowell and Fitchburg lines are best placed to cover the city. In other words, setting funding aside and considering only land use and coverage, where would you place the optimal (potentially underground) Green Line extension. In particular, how far is the proposed Union Sq. stop from the square itself, and would a short cut-and-cover tunnel into the square itself significantly improve the quality of the service?

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Old 10-18-2006, 11:26 PM   #33
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Station location is yet to be determined. Running the Union Square branch alongside the Fitchburg Line, then splitting off to a surface loop near Prospect St and Somerville Ave, probably makes the most sense.
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
What pisses me off the most about transit planning in Boston in general is that doing it on the cheap (i.e. on existing ROWs) seems to trump any other planning consideration.
Worst part, it ends up not even being cheap.
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:53 PM   #35
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I was on the silver line today, and noticed that the maps showed SL4 (well, Silver line D on the map) as a route going from Silver Line Way to Andrew on the red line. Has this been cancelled?

I bring this up because of the red line connection discussions in this thread.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:16 PM   #36
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The thought of going from Medford to, say, Harvard Square via downtown is pretty ridiculous. Either the Green and Red should connect, or the bus system should be better integrated (read: free transfer). Then again, people are known to go from JP to Brookline via downtown.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:37 PM   #37
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Free transfers to and from buses are part of the fare increase proposal. You will need a CharlieCard (not the current CharlieTicket).
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:03 AM   #38
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The thought of going from Medford to, say, Harvard Square via downtown is pretty ridiculous. Either the Green and Red should connect, or the bus system should be better integrated
Not sure if this post was referring to the Union-to-Porter elevated Green Line project proposed earlier, but such a connection would not do anything for Medford to Harvard travel (which is already accommodated by the 96 bus). Even if the Green Line was extended to Porter via the Fitchburg right of way, Medford travelers would need to ride inbound to the Lechmere/NorthPoint, transfer to an outbound Green Line to Porter, then transfer a second time to an inbound Red Line to Harvard.

Will the market for the $300 million Union-to-Porter subway connector please show itself!
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:29 PM   #39
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RAGE against the Green Line
By Matthew Keough/ mkeough@cnc.com
Thursday, October 26, 2006

When Jim Morse first got wind of the MBTA?s plans to extend the Green Line into the city, the retired Medford firefighter decided he would attend all of the exploratory meetings, even though he was no fan of the proposed expansion.
But Morse noticed that only a small number of Medford residents were even aware of a meeting held in Somerville on Oct. 16 and then he became concerned. Later, when Morse read online that just about everybody seemed to support a plan by the Medford Green Line Neighborhood Alliance (MGNA) to put a station Route 16 by Wild Oats, he got mad.
"I read a story about there being no dissent over the plans at the Somerville meeting," Morse said, adding he became discouraged when he did not read the opinion of dissenters present at the meeting.
But rather than simply fire off an angry e-mail or letter, Morse decided to focus his rage, literally, by forming a group called Medford Residents Against the Green Line Extension (RAGE), which posits a contrary opinion to that of the MGNA.
Although RAGE counts only one member so far, Morse himself, the name is most likely well known to abutters of the opposed expansion sites, where he personally distributed hundreds of fliers.
Morse is against bringing a station to Rte. 16, which would cause what he calls "Wellington Circle/Station Landing at Rte. 16." Morse is also against illegal parking, eminent domain and the drastic facelift to neighborhoods that could occur as a result of a new T station.
Although Morse?s group is something of a response to the MGNA, that group?s founder, Ken Krause, said the Green Line debate is not a battle.
"I think it?s really important that the community work together," said Krause, who will be filming a televised debate with Morse this week. "I applaud Jim Morse for taking the initiative to get more people involved. I spoke with Jim and we share a lot of concerns about the potential impact."
But RAGE?s biggest talking point so far has been Morse?s disapproval of plans to extend the Green Line to Rte. 16.
"My biggest contention is extending it to Wild Oats," Morse said, adding he has asked local officials to weigh in on potential parking and traffic problems. "But we do agree that we need to push for access for the disabled and making sure the stations are manned."
Although Morse may be opposed to a stop at Rte. 16, he has come up with a few alternative ideas on his own, chief among them being an underground stop in Medford Square.
"It would really be a proposal for smart growth," Morse said. "If we had an underground stop, that would liven up the square with the kind of things we want."
Krause, however, doubted if such a plan would either be economically or practically feasible. But Morse said there is little that can be planned at this stage, especially with the information provided by MBTA officials.
"Do we have the money to really do this project? How much will electricity cost? How much will the city have to pay the MBTA?" Morse said. "Cost is always a factor. This isn?t like putting in a bus stop, and I don?t think the costs have all been factored yet."
And much of that money, Morse said, could be better put to use in a variety of ways. As an avid runner, Morse has noted a dangerous increase in the wild geese population in Medford, which he said poses a health risk that should take precedence over MBTA expansion plans.
"In those germs are e-coli, West Nile and everything else," Morse said. "And as a former firefighter, I?m concerned about people?s safety first. I think that has priority over the MBTA."
But for now, both Morse and Krause say they are looking to forward to working with one another, or at least alongside one another, for a common goal: to get the best for Medford.
"The most important thing any of us can do is get input from a variety of people," Morse said. "I don?t care if it?s pro or con. Let?s just educate the public and hear from the people who are going to be affected by this."
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:45 PM   #40
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We gotta get those geese first!
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