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View Poll Results: Who do plan to support for President in the 2016 Election?
Hillary Clinton 38 62.30%
Donald Trump 6 9.84%
Gary Johnson 11 18.03%
Jill Stein 3 4.92%
Other 3 4.92%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-25-2016, 09:03 AM   #1
BussesAin'tTrains
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2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Against my better judgement...
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:19 AM   #2
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

CROOKED HILLARY STARTED AL QUEIDA AND ISIS AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11. THE BOSTON BOMBERS WERE HILLARY'S CONTRACTED KILL TEAM.
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:26 AM   #3
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Old 08-25-2016, 10:12 AM   #4
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

^ Honestly, how can we not have JS for this election?? This is just not right.

EDIT: (argh, by JS I mean Jon Stewart). Damn abbreviations

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Old 08-25-2016, 11:04 AM   #5
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

I'm surprised there's no Jill Stein votes, yet.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:13 PM   #6
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

^ Can't not post this profanity-laced tirade by Dan Savage:

Quote:
Alright, blah blah blah. Sorry I had to stop you. Yeah, let’s talk about the Green Party for just a moment, or third parties, getting a third party movement off the ground here in this country. Because we are sick of the two party system!

Here’s how you fucking do that: you run people not just for fucking president every four fucking years.

I have a problem with the Greens, I have a problem with the Libertarians. I have a problem with these fake, attention seeking, grandstanding Green/Libertarian party candidates who pop up every four years, like mushrooms in shit, saying that they're building a third party. And those of us who don't have a home in the Republican Party, don't have a home in the Democratic Party, can't get behind every Democratic position or Republican position, should gravitate toward these third parties. And help build a third party movement by every four fucking years voting for one of these assholes like Jill fucking Stein, who I'm sure is a lovely person, she's only an asshole in this aspect.

If you're interested in building a third party, a viable third party, you don’t start with president. You don't start by running someone for fucking president.

Where are the Green Party candidates for city councils? For county councils? For state legislatures? For state assessor? For state insurance commissioner? For governor? For fucking dogcatcher? I would be SO willing to vote for Green Party candidates who are starting at the bottom, grassroots, bottom up, building a third party, a viable third party.

You don't do that by trotting out the reanimated corpse of Ralph fucking Nader every four fucking years. Or his doppelgänger, whoever it is now, Jill Stein and some asshole-to-be-named four years from now. You start by running grassroots, local campaigns. And there've been — and I'm sure we're going hear from lots of people out there listening — there have been a couple of Green Party candidates who’ve run in other races here and there across the country. But no sustained effort to build a Green Party nationally. Just this griping, bullshitty, grandstanding, fault-finding, purity-testing, holier than thou-ing, that we are all subjected to every four fucking years by the Green Party candidate.

And the folks, including you caller — and I love you and I respect you and we’re having this debate and I'm not treating you with kid gloves because I respect you — who are fooled by them, who are sucked into this bullshit, who are tricked by these grandstanding, attention-seeking, bullshit-spewing charlatans, into wasting your vote.

Which is what you are going to do, I'm sorry to say, to circle back to the top of your call. You are essentially, if you're voting for Jill Stein, helping to potentially elect Donald J. Trump president of these United States. Which would be a catastrophe.

Which is what some people say that they want. People supported Ralph Nader in 2000 and said there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, therefore we could all afford to throw our votes away, protest-style, on Ralph Nader, who had no hope of getting elected, because there was no difference between Bush and Gore.

These same people, at the same time, said that George Bush was so manifestly obviously terrible that he would bring the revolution if he got himself elected somehow. They didn’t say this about Gore, he wouldn’t bring the revolution. They’re exactly the same, exactly as awful, but one would bring the revolution and one wouldn’t. Which means they weren't exactly the same and they weren't equally awful.

And we're hearing the same thing now about Hillary and Donald. That they’re both equally awful. They're both equally terrible, corrupt two party system, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it. Fuck them both, fuck both their houses! Vote for Jill Stein!

And if Donald should get elected, oh he’s so terrible, so much worse than the equally awful Hillary Clinton, that his election will bring the revolution.

It's bullshit.

The revolution did not come in 2000 when George W. Bush got close enough to winning to steal the White House. It will not come if Donald J. Trump gets his ass elected.

Disaster will come. And the people who’ll suffer are not going to be the pasty white Green Party supporters — pasty white Jill Stein and her pasty white supporters. The people who’ll suffer are going to be people of color. People of minority faiths. Queer people. Women.

Don’t do it. Don't throw your vote away on Jill Stein/vote for, bankshot-style, Donald Trump.

And if you want to build a viable third party, more power to you. I could see myself voting for a Green Party candidate for president in 25 years, after I've seen Green Party candidates getting elected to state legislatures, getting elected to governorships, getting elected to Congress. Then you can run some legitimate motherfucker for president.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:39 PM   #7
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
^ Can't not post this profanity-laced tirade by Dan Savage:
Which absolutely ignores the near success of Mel King in running for mayor in Boston and the fact that the Green Party has fielded candidates in many races in Massachusetts where the Republican Party didn't have a candidate. Dan Savage came off as an ignoramus to anyone who actually follows the local races.

(Moving beyond Massachusetts, there are the officeholders in 16 states in positions that Dan Savage claims the Green Party is ignoring like Library Board, Soil and Water Conservation Board, etc.)
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:05 AM   #8
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

How can anybody on this site vote for Hilary Clinton: The Clintons along with the Bush's are responsible for a lot of problems this country faces in the future.

The United States is BROKE---
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:25 AM   #9
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
How can anybody on this site vote for Hilary Clinton: The Clintons along with the Bush's are responsible for a lot of problems this country faces in the future.

The United States is BROKE---
Less Fox News will do you a world of good.
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:41 AM   #10
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
How can anybody on this site vote for Hilary Clinton: The Clintons along with the Bush's are responsible for a lot of problems this country faces in the future.

The United States is BROKE---
You know what? You are right. The people who have held control take a lot of responsibility for problems that arise in the future. They also hold responsibility for the good things that come in the future. The Bushs and Clintons have both good and bad outcomes on their hands.

There is no doubt in my mind that Hillary Clinton will leave both positive and negative legacy for this country and the world. That is the nature of the job.

You can't say any of those things about Trump because he's never done anything. He's never been responsible for anything that he couldn't weasel his way out of in bankruptcy court. On top of all that, he babbles incoherently with no understanding of domestic or world affairs.

I learned an interesting tid-bit about Trump's so-called success. He might appear to have a lot of money, but if he had invested the money his daddy gave him in an S&P500 index fund back in the 70's or whenever, he'd have more than double the money he has now. He's made a lot of waves, only to swim backwards.

So yeah, I'll vote for Clinton because she is a reasonable person with the depth of knowledge and understanding to do the job. I'll also vote against a racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, demagogue who appeals to the fears and insecurities of the least educated people in our country. Easy.
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:18 PM   #11
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
The United States is BROKE---
The United States is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Sure our government has a little too much debt but it's alot less as a percentage of GDP compared to many countries in southern Europe. Trump's tax plan as it stands will dramatically increase the federal deficit and cause financial collapse.
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:38 PM   #12
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
The United States is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Sure our government has a little too much debt but it's alot less as a percentage of GDP compared to many countries in southern Europe. Trump's tax plan as it stands will dramatically increase the federal deficit and cause financial collapse.
Tysmith--- The United States is fucking broke:

If you understood the currency system we are completely screwed.
Interest rates cannot be raised because it mathematically bankrupts the Federal Govt without non-stop printing the American Taxpayers labor value away to nothing.

20 Trillion dollar National Debt
100 Trillion in Unfunded Liabilities (Social Securty & Medicare)

Not only that we continue to run an 500+ Billion dollar deficit.
US Tax Revenue 3.3 Trillion
US Federal Spending 3.8 Trillion
500+ Billion dollar deficit.

The future is very bleak for the United States to exist and its basic economics.

Think if Interest rates went up 1 point: How much more interest does the US Taxpayers pay on 20 Trillion dollars when we are already running 500-600 Billion in the RED?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

These people ran our country into the ground.
Greenspan, Bernanke should be put in Prison for TREASON.

Fattony Good post (I disagree with most of it but I have to respect it)
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Old 08-26-2016, 06:25 PM   #13
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Interest rates have nothing to do with the federal deficit. Interest rates are based on controlling inflation during good economic times and stimulating the economy during uncertain economic times.

I agree that the federal deficit is a bad thing. However broadly decreasing taxes without concrete plans to reduce spending will only make it worse, not better.

The 20 trillion national debt is not national debt to other countries, lots of this debt is from Americans to other Americans. Yes this number is very high but it is inflated to inflame people, the United States does not have anywhere close to a net 20 trillion dollar deficit to other nations.

There are alot of issues with America but it's not all doom and gloom.

It was pretty much a guarantee that this discussion would turn into a shit-show.

Last edited by tysmith95; 08-26-2016 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:27 PM   #14
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
Interest rates have nothing to do with the federal deficit. Interest rates are based on controlling inflation during good economic times and stimulating the economy during uncertain economic times.

I agree that the federal deficit is a bad thing. However broadly decreasing taxes without concrete plans to reduce spending will only make it worse, not better.

The 20 trillion national debt is not national debt to other countries, lots of this debt is from Americans to other Americans. Yes this number is very high but it is inflated to inflame people, the United States does not have anywhere close to a net 20 trillion dollar deficit to other nations.

There are alot of issues with America but it's not all doom and gloom.

It was pretty much a guarantee that this discussion would turn into a shit-show.
First, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a libertarian leaning centrist - so yes, my vote is for Gary Johnson this fall.

I agree that we can't just cut taxes and keep everything as status quo - that's asking the US to just add more of a burden to me, my fellow Americans, and several generations that have yet to be born.

That said, you are missing the point that we have 120 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. (For comparison's sake, the entirety of the global economy is 80 trillion annually.) It doesn't matter who we owe it to, we can't just print more more money and say that solves the issue.

I'm no economist, accountant, or other types of numbers guy - but the little that I know is that we can't:

1. Tax ourselves out of the issue
2. Spend ourselves out of the issue.

We have to balance the budget, and get a plan together to start paying that 120 trillion back.
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:51 PM   #15
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

http://andy2016.com/




Read in a non-hectoring enough tone and it almost sounds pragmatic.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:02 PM   #16
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
http://andy2016.com/




Read in a non-hectoring enough tone and it almost sounds pragmatic.
Needs a shade of Orange (or Blonde) and the portion of voters that don't do their homework will gobble that right up.
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:31 AM   #17
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Some context for those who don't follow actuarial projections about these terrifying liability numbers:

Is Our Debt Burden Really $100 Trillion? From The Atlantic in 2012, but the arguments haven't changed at all since then.
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:40 AM   #18
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

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Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
If you understood the currency system we are completely screwed.
Interest rates cannot be raised because it mathematically bankrupts the Federal Govt without non-stop printing the American Taxpayers labor value away to nothing.
Love these two sentence back to back.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:30 PM   #19
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Dr. Jill Stein. And I'd be more than happy to go into a long spiel if you guys so choose...
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Old 08-27-2016, 06:15 PM   #20
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election (General Election)

Can someone who is warning of the HORRORS of PRINTING MONEY please explain (actually, please don't) why PRINTING MONEY is the worst possible thing in the world???

1) Yes, we should strive to balance the budget. Definitely.

2) No, PRINTING MONEY (OMG!!!) is not the end of civilization.

The U.S. currency, throughout all of the horrors of debt accumulation, is still one of the, if not THE, most stable sources of value on this planet. The notion of "currency must be backed by gold!!" is an archaic way of saying "we don't trust the government". So long as U.S. currency is in the top echelon of currencies, which it is, and has been for a very long time, this entire discourse about printing money being the "WORST POSSIBLE" thing is bunk.

Currency value has nothing to do with precious metals. It is arbitrary with respect to material things. Currency value has to do with how one's country stacks up to others with regard to our value creation system. And while there's much to be improved, we are still in the topmost echelon.

So let's worry about the more important things (e.g., human rights, quality of life, not electing an idiot), while pushing the budget toward balance, and meanwhile, letting those printing presses hum (which, by the way, means more skyscrapers on boston...whoohooo).
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