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Old 01-03-2019, 02:04 PM   #1181
bakgwailo
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Iím driving west on the Pike out around Sturbridge and a new Orange Line car just passed me going in the other direction!
Fantastic. Hopefully the new cars will still be on track to start rolling this month.
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:25 PM   #1182
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Fantastic. Hopefully the new cars will still be on track to start rolling this month.
I believe they are. At least the first full train set. I spoke briefly with someone at Sullivan when I saw the new train there last week (picture on the last page) who said it was fully operational (it's clearly moving along the line if it's been spotted at Sullivan and along the pike) and ready to go. It's just getting the staff up to speed.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:17 PM   #1183
estyle
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Fantastic. Hopefully the new cars will still be on track to start rolling this month.
I am so looking forward to never sitting on filthy, carpet covered seats again!
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:51 PM   #1184
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...vZJ/story.html

Boston Globe Article on the new cars, some highlights: "Officials expect to give an update on deployment of the first new train at the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority board meeting Monday." with an estimated timeline of before the end of January. Also some good pictures and a bit of video of the trains being tested
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:55 PM   #1185
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

First OL set will be delayed until April or so by testing procedures for an onboard signal system component. Not sure why they let the Globe go to print with the story this morning that said January if they already knew that wasn't going to happen.

Delay is only for the first set - the second set will go into service simultaneously now.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...?event=event25

Typical Globe whining: "That marks yet another hold-up for the debut of one of the transit systemís most highly anticipated projects. Officials previously pushed the trainís entrance to passenger service from late 2018 into 2019." Very misleading. The delay regards only the first set of cars, not the project as a whole. Most riders would never have noticed.

Not that the T doesn't deserve criticism, but the Globe (and Adam Vaccaro specifically) need to do better than this. It's irresponsible demagoguery that turns good public servants into punching bags.
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:59 PM   #1186
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Here's a link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...4WJ/story.html

And here's a link that bypasses the paywall: https://translate.google.com/transla...ry.html&anno=2
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:00 PM   #1187
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Old 01-14-2019, 01:27 PM   #1188
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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First OL set will be delayed until April or so by testing procedures for an onboard signal system component. Not sure why they let the Globe go to print with the story this morning that said January if they already knew that wasn't going to happen.
Probably because the whole ride along article that was published this morning was actually finalized a week or more ago. The ride along was in mid-December. My guess is that the Comms. team wiped their hands of this a few weeks ago and possibly thought the story just died which happens from time to time. Especially with "positive", not so time sensitive PR pieces like that one. So they moved on. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason we're hearing about the delay today is because someone at the T saw the article and said "Oh Sh*t! That story actually ran, we've got to correct them."

I agree with the rest of what you wrote. Dead on.
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:38 PM   #1189
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Imagine if you bought a Corolla and then you find out the dealer needs to do 500 miles of tests on it oh and another 3 month delay because your Corolla needs to talk to the traffic signal on your street.
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #1190
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

One little delay wouldn't bother most people, but stacked with cars that are older than Methuselah and a system plagued with delays and problems it will of course appear bigger than it is. It also causes people to believe that more delays are inevitable, and that the new estimates will also be missed. The headline and lede of the article are definitely misleading, but the T doesn't exactly have a track record that imbues confidence.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:12 PM   #1191
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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One little delay wouldn't bother most people, but stacked with cars that are older than Methuselah and a system plagued with delays and problems it will of course appear bigger than it is. It also causes people to believe that more delays are inevitable, and that the new estimates will also be missed. The headline and lede of the article are definitely misleading, but the T doesn't exactly have a track record that imbues confidence.
No public agency that's forced to publish estimated timelines does. Apple can keep a new product secret until the day they start selling it. There are cases where the MBTA and other agencies don't run projects well, but the problem here is that the public is impatient and poorly informed by people with a financial interest in riling them up.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:19 PM   #1192
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Imagine if you bought a Corolla and then you find out the dealer needs to do 500 miles of tests on it oh and another 3 month delay because your Corolla needs to talk to the traffic signal on your street.
Imagine the 2019 Corolla was actually designed in the same calendar year it went on-sale, and you might be inclined to believe such a line of utter B.S. that you keep repeating here.

Guess what...they do exactly that level of testing with new-model year cars. It happens 2-3 years in advance of going on sale.

These are pilot trains...as in "pre-production". As in..."not a Corolla you can yet buy because it's a model year 2021."
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:42 PM   #1193
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
No public agency that's forced to publish estimated timelines does. Apple can keep a new product secret until the day they start selling it. There are cases where the MBTA and other agencies don't run projects well, but the problem here is that the public is impatient and poorly informed by people with a financial interest in riling them up.
Completely agreed on all points. I think there is some justified impatience w/r/t the T. I also don't think this particular story will make all that big of a splash, despite the Globe gleefully pushing it.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:40 PM   #1194
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Guess what...they do exactly that level of testing with new-model year cars. It happens 2-3 years in advance of going on sale.

These are pilot trains...as in "pre-production". As in..."not a Corolla you can yet buy because it's a model year 2021."
This is what happens when every agency insists on a custom train, every time.

And the 500 mile test is for every train, not just the first one. Every train.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:34 PM   #1195
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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This is what happens when every agency insists on a custom train, every time.

And the 500 mile test is for every train, not just the first one. Every train.
500 miles, in the grand scheme of things, isn't really all that much. The Orange Line is approximately 11 miles from end to end. That's approximately 23 round trips on the whole line. Most of the current sets likely do much more than that in a couple of days.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:22 PM   #1196
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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This is what happens when every agency insists on a custom train, every time.

And the 500 mile test is for every train, not just the first one. Every train.
Yeah, let's try and design a one size fits all transit car. Oh, wait, nevermind, that is how we got the old Boeing. I mean seriously - how else is it supposed to happen when ever transit system has different rail/loading gauges, signal systems, and needs? These aren't 10k mass produced Honda Civics (that, as already pointed out go through a ton of testing before being offered to the public). Why not apply your logic, then, to airplanes which are way more 'off the shelf' than subway rolling stock, and each one still has to go through a battery of tests before passengers set foot on them.
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:41 PM   #1197
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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500 miles, in the grand scheme of things, isn't really all that much. The Orange Line is approximately 11 miles from end to end. That's approximately 23 round trips on the whole line. Most of the current sets likely do much more than that in a couple of days.
Fair point, except we know it takes them longer.

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Yeah, let's try and design a one size fits all transit car. Oh, wait, nevermind, that is how we got the old Boeing. I mean seriously - how else is it supposed to happen when ever transit system has different rail/loading gauges, signal systems, and needs? These aren't 10k mass produced Honda Civics (that, as already pointed out go through a ton of testing before being offered to the public). Why not apply your logic, then, to airplanes which are way more 'off the shelf' than subway rolling stock, and each one still has to go through a battery of tests before passengers set foot on them.
Counterpoint: PCCs were incredibly successful.

Loading gauge for one isnt an issue. We even have trains where you can move the wheels back and forth to adjust for the right sized track (still common in India). A more significant variable is the width of the actual passenger compartment to match with the platforms for level boarding.

I agree that the logic applies to airplanes as well.

We over-regulate transit (air is transit) and under-regulate private vehicles.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:37 PM   #1198
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Counterpoint: PCCs were incredibly successful.
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Loading gauge for one isnt an issue. We even have trains where you can move the wheels back and forth to adjust for the right sized track (still common in India). A more significant variable is the width of the actual passenger compartment to match with the platforms for level boarding.
Sounds like way more moving parts and things to fail over the 25-40 year expected lifespans of these vehicles. As for PCCs, that was a different era (and light rail vs heavy). They also still offered "standard" a la carte options, and full customization. As far as I know, it was pretty much the only successful large scale standardized rapid transit (rail) vehicle pretty much ever. Also, I have no idea if each car was tested before being put into passenger use. My guess is - probably.

Would you not, if dropping millions on something, give it a few tests runs to make sure its up to snuff before accepting ownership from the manufacturer? UAT exists in every industry...

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I agree that the logic applies to airplanes as well.

We over-regulate transit (air is transit) and under-regulate private vehicles.
Just wait until an airplane goes down and kills a bunch of people, or one of the new trans goes off the track. Its not over-regulation, its good engineering.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:16 PM   #1199
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Counterpoint: PCCs were incredibly successful.
PCCs were also in the pre-accessibility era which made "one size fits all" cars much easier to produce, now transit systems consider all their riders which means much tighter tolerances which makes it pretty impossible to use a single design. Now we expect platforms and floors to line up perfectly and gap free. Also to make the most of a specific size of tunnel custom built cars are the only way to go, the current green line cars are much larger and come within an inch of the walls at times but are designed as such.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:28 PM   #1200
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

PCCs were also primarily used on surface streetcar lines, where loading gauge isn't as much of an issue. And primarily-surface light rail is the place in the US where rail vehicles are very standardized: the Siemens S70 and a few other models represent the vast majority of surface streetcars in use in the US.
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