archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-07-2019, 10:14 AM   #5541
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,630
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpicture7 View Post
I know it is a very tired cliché to compare the T to European cities' transit...

But, in seriousness, we can't lose sight of what right looks like.

I have been to many of the major European cities, but I just got back from my first ever trip to Berlin. Holy shit. Now that is how you do transit.

From the ICE (Inter-City Express), regional rail (S-Bahn), subway (U-Bahn), tram, and busses, it is the most comprehensive and well-integrated system I have ever seen. The headways are miniscule, the connections effortless. No joke: transit performs better than Uber, so no one takes Uber.

The reason I thought of it here is that we have been hoping/praying for this dinky tunnel under Causeway....there, every frickin station has tunnels to all four sides of every intersection.

Let's never stop aspiring for better, folks.
The transit structure you are describing is pretty typical of major German cities. But let's not forget the timing of much of the construction -- post WWII reconstruction when all the cities were bombed out shells. It is much easier to build mega stations under major city squares, connecting to all sides, when all you are removing is rubble to do it.
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 07:00 PM   #5542
adamh8297
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 540
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FitchburgLine View Post
That escalator had better be reversible- tunnel worked quite well for Fitchburg Express, but the stair is too damn narrow. The Celtics game at 7:30 today will be an interesting stress test.
I did Green Line Lechmere-North Station arrived at 5pm on the dot and got to tracks quickly. I am wondering if I lucked out.
adamh8297 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2019, 08:58 AM   #5543
North Shore
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 82
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FitchburgLine View Post
That escalator had better be reversible- tunnel worked quite well for Fitchburg Express, but the stair is too damn narrow. The Celtics game at 7:30 today will be an interesting stress test.
I'll be at the Bruins game tonight. I figure I'll be at NS around 6:00 pm. Let's see how this goes.
North Shore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 10:44 AM   #5544
North Shore
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 82
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Shore View Post
I'll be at the Bruins game tonight. I figure I'll be at NS around 6:00 pm. Let's see how this goes.
So, I go downstairs to use the new tunnel last night after the game. Fortunately, the concourse and tunnel weren't too crowded. Which was good, since the escalator on the Garden side wasn't working.

As for the end of the tunnel at the turnstiles - well, that was a total cluster. Made all the more frustrating by the wheelchair gate that got stuck open and tens of people just walked right through WITH A STATION ATTENDANT LEANING AGAINST A POLE JUST WATCHING THEM.

I called him out to his face, but he literally didn't blink an eye.
North Shore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 12:31 PM   #5545
stefalarchitect
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 440
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Shore View Post
So, I go downstairs to use the new tunnel last night after the game. Fortunately, the concourse and tunnel weren't too crowded. Which was good, since the escalator on the Garden side wasn't working.

As for the end of the tunnel at the turnstiles - well, that was a total cluster. Made all the more frustrating by the wheelchair gate that got stuck open and tens of people just walked right through WITH A STATION ATTENDANT LEANING AGAINST A POLE JUST WATCHING THEM.

I called him out to his face, but he literally didn't blink an eye.
Was the attendant in a red shirt? Or an actual T employee? North Station will never be built to accommodate for the rush of a C's or Bruins game, but that's not an excuse for a broken fare gate...

-as a side note - the escalator is in fact reversible (was questioned earlier this week) and they had it operating with the flow of the crowd this morning.. Helped ease the congestion around the stairs quite a bit...
stefalarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2019, 01:58 PM   #5546
bakgwailo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 749
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefalarchitect View Post
Was the attendant in a red shirt? Or an actual T employee? North Station will never be built to accommodate for the rush of a C's or Bruins game, but that's not an excuse for a broken fare gate...

-as a side note - the escalator is in fact reversible (was questioned earlier this week) and they had it operating with the flow of the crowd this morning.. Helped ease the congestion around the stairs quite a bit...
I have definetely seen that in Kenmore during Sox games - always figured the T was just forgoing fare collection on purpose to deal with the crush load.
bakgwailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2019, 07:04 AM   #5547
stick n move
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 4,668
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Whatabout some of these for the silver line? I didnt even know rubber tire subways exist but I guess theyre big in France and Japan and some parts of Canada too. I guess they can stop faster, steeper inclines, quieter, sharper corners, and theyre quieter. Downsides are more maintenance, more parts...etc. I wonder if they could get tricked into approving a “small” upgrade to the system then for all intents and purposes wed have a full subway... a very smoothe one at that.





Edit:
Of course the silver line is light rail so a rubber tire tram would be perfect. Its just a follower guide in the middle then the tires do their thing on regular concrete we already have. It really is the same thing as light rail just smoother. Adding that middle rail wouldnt be bad at all. Why has this never been floated? Seems very straight forward, we already have a lot of the overhead power, the stations, tunnels, right of ways...etc. Some systems even use batteries where there is no overhead power. Using these trams we could keep the stations as is without adding platforms jacking up the price. Then you can have from single cars and expand it to a few together like the green line. Is this not a perfect middle ground for capacity expansion? Rubber tire trams have the best headways due to their breaking performance too. Starting from scratch theyre actually more expensive, but we would really only have to add the guide rail and tram sets. Converting it would theoretically be pretty cheap since we already have the silver line.



This type is even capable of being steered when not on the guide rail.




Glx, Fairmount DMU’s, Boston landing DMU’s, silver line rubber tire tram to Logan, maybe even to Chelsea...Added with the new Red/Green/Orange trains.. bam transit is twice as good. Throw in the gondola from North Station to Charlestown/Chelsea for shits n gigs n for massive savings we have a great set of major upgrades. Eventually kick off red-blue and NSRL and we have a major overhaul and expansive system finally running to its full potential getting cars off the roads and unlocking new neighborhoods to rapid transit.


Add a guide rail down the middle and the new tram sets on top. Some can even run on battery power and be steered when not on the guide rail too, but moving away from that would be the ideal scenario. I wonder if this could “sneak through” somehow.



Last edited by stick n move; 01-14-2019 at 07:58 AM.
stick n move is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2019, 08:02 AM   #5548
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,580
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Rubber-tire metros can only go off their guideway inside yard limits; they aren't roadworthy and wouldn't work at all for SL1.

Rubber-tire trams might be a better application, but the extremely short distance of the Transitway vs. distance SL1 covers in mixed traffic makes its usefulness very limited here. Plus, there's the whole can of worms on whether it would be allowed on an Interstate highway.


The best fit for Silver is what we've known all along: a light rail connection to the Green Line west of South Station, rails in the busway pavement on the Transitway so Green and Silver overlap between SS and SL Way shuffling maximal passenger load, and Airport + Chelsea dual-mode buses continuing to do their thing through the Ted less bogged down by intra-Seaport demand. Short of the third Ted transit bore that isn't ever coming, there isn't anything else that can really serve the need.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM   #5549
stick n move
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 4,668
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

So the Chinese took it even further and invented a system that doesnt even need a guide rail it just follows a painted line kind of like a smart car. This could be a true middle ground for capacity and cost savings. It can carry 300 people and run on battery power when theres no overhead lines. This could truly be something that actually is a plug n play massive capacity boost.









stick n move is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM   #5550
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,580
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by stick n move View Post
So the Chinese took it even further and invented a system that doesnt even need a guide rail it just follows a painted line kind of like a smart car. This could be a true middle ground for capacity and cost savings. It can carry 300 people and run on battery power when theres no overhead lines. This could truly be something that actually is a plug n play massive capacity boost.
OK...again, the be-all/end-all is whether such a thing would ever be allowed by the feds on an Interstate highway. Because we don't have a Silver Line unless SL1 and SL3 can travel on I-90. It's not enough to show examples of gee-whiz off-guideway hybrid vehicles. If it's not a vehicle that conforms to conventional standards of an RMV plate category, it's vanishingly unlikely it would ever be allowed through the Ted. Importing one of these vehicles would either require an extremely rare fed waiver, or creation of an entirely new RMV plate class for an axle count that's never been seen before on an Interstate. But the feds would have to decide on that first...and when they have no timetable for rendering a decision, how exactly does a transit agency go about soliciting bids and pursuing a procurement?

Remember...the state voluntarily chose mixed-running on the Pike and all the vehicle registration compliance that entailed over building a third bore for transit, so "No fair!" or not the feds don't owe us squat here on exemptions.


That's not a sequence that's realistic to happen. There's a lot of Jetsons-shit innovation happening in bus technology. Look there for the Silver Line's future, because if the vehicle can be registered as a bus by the RMV it's guaranteed to be able to run through the Ted on SL1/SL3. On any other hybrid vehicle type that isn't a derived bus that's wishful thinking at best, naive and antithetical to procurement cycle planning at worst.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM   #5551
stick n move
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 4,668
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Im just saying theres options. Maybe you have a better chance at a tunnel if you dont have to spend the multi millions per mile laying track everywhere else. Im just saying that technology is creating new solutions that can be implemented easier into cities, relax.
stick n move is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM   #5552
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,580
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by stick n move View Post
Im just saying theres options. Maybe you have a better chance at a tunnel if you dont have to spend the multi millions per mile laying track everywhere else. Im just saying that technology is creating new solutions that can be implemented easier into cities, relax.
But where are the options in any of those??? You're saying these are candidate vehicles for the Silver Line. Well...if it's going to roll on rubber tires on the Silver Line at all it's got to be roadworthy on an Interstate. Thus far, no rubber-tire tram is roadworthy on an Interstate, so they're useless for running SL1 or SL3. But every type of bus in existence is.

If all you're looking to do is complete the connection to the Back Bay with less heinous tunneling cost than cancelled Phase III, you're building a rail-dimension not BRT-dimension tunnel and direct-connecting it to the Green Line to draw from a 200+ car installed base of Green Line rolling stock with a bus/trolley overlap in the Transitway from SS to SL Way. You're not buying a wholly separate specialty fleet that can't interline and serves no distinct purpose. That's not saving money, that's inflating cost beyond belief by repeating the same mistakes that killed Phase III.

Options don't matter much in a contextual vacuum. Pick the right tool for the job...by understanding first what the job is. Just because it's neato tech doesn't mean it has a force-fit application here. If the Silver Line taught us anything it's that force-fits of the flavor-of-the-month is a pretty reliable way to bloat costs totally off-scale and underwhelm on the delivery.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:59 AM   #5553
stick n move
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dorchester
Posts: 4,668
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

A tunnel is going to have to be built one day. Unless the plan is to just half ass it for the rest of time. Maybe when its built tech can help keep some costs down when connecting it. Ideally just a separate row rail line would be best. Who knows what will happen but one day something is going to have to get done thats expensive.
stick n move is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A discussion regarding Chinatown commuter guy Boston Architecture & Urbanism 31 05-07-2016 06:30 AM
MBTA thread(s) cleanup Arlington Board Issues and Announcements 2 03-12-2015 06:46 PM
General RER-type service thread BostonUrbEx Transit and Infrastructure 26 11-22-2014 02:16 PM
General Real Estate/Rental Discussion BostonUrbEx Boston Architecture & Urbanism 5 04-16-2012 02:46 PM
aB Awards General Discussion statler 2008 Awards Nominations & Discussion 10 02-18-2009 06:40 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.