archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2018, 01:34 PM   #621
Wonk
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 20
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattony View Post
Are you also one of those people who think granite counter tops are the difference between luxury and affordable condos? Exactly how much of the $445 million do you think is attributable to the TVs and couch cushions?

A round trip ticket on a BA A380 to Heathrow will cost you roughly somewhere between $500 and $5000.


A round trip ticket to Alewife will cost you $4.50.


Comparing airlines investments versus MBTA investments makes no sense. They are completely different markets providing completely different services at completely different price points for the consumer.
Wonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 01:51 PM   #622
jass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,411
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Im sorry are you really trying to establish that the ticket cost has any relation to the capital cost of the vehicle?

That shows a complete disregard for how transportation pricing works.

The two main cost drivers of BA flights are 1) taxes and 2) fuel costs

The new Royal Caribbean Symphony of the Seas cost US$1.35 billion to build, but the cost for one night aboard is about $90.
jass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 02:08 PM   #623
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,783
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

I'm a little obsessed with the B-C roadway weave project. Here's some more captures from the Massport BOD presentation.

- Note that this project also involves demolishing the old control tower (which is at the midpoint between B&C, to the right of the road) to make way for a direct-connect roadway from B to C, primarily for buses.

-Will also eliminate the corkscrew ramps near the entrance to the B garage, which have always intrigued me because they are totally inscrutable.

- And there are apparently a couple new ground-level entrances to the Central Garage - not clear if this is just for the temporary area during construction, or if there is also an intent to spread out traffic coming into the garages over the long term.

- This seems to leave ( and maybe exacerbate?) a C-E weave issue, which is also bad today. Maybe there's a long term prospect of sending E-bound traffic through the roadway between the garages and then through another grade-separation (to be constructed in the future?)


Also I can't get beyond my suspicion that the geometry of the curb area for C is just fatally flawed (b/c it limits traffic flowing in and out to very narrow throats) and that any long-term solution has to involve either moving some portion of the traffic to the garage footprint permanently, and-or shifting the load to B & E by renaming gates etc...









CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 05:21 PM   #624
cadetcarl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Boston/Medford
Posts: 401
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Do you know if there are still ATC functions in the old tower? There's still the bridge connecting it to the new tower, but I wonder what the other impact will be.
cadetcarl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 05:43 PM   #625
Arlington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Medford, MA
Posts: 3,621
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Creating some new curb space between B2 & C would be nice. Any of that in the plans? (hard to see in what's posted)
__________________
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 05:55 PM   #626
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,783
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadetcarl View Post
Do you know if there are still ATC functions in the old tower? There's still the bridge connecting it to the new tower, but I wonder what the other impact will be.
No - I think the presentation said there is office space in there, which is going to get relocated to somewhere else - but no ATC
CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 05:56 PM   #627
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,783
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
Creating some new curb space between B2 & C would be nice. Any of that in the plans? (hard to see in what's posted)
No, not that I can tell. There will probably a perfunctory sidewalk on the ground level, like there is between C&E, but nothing like a drop off / pickup space.
CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 06:26 PM   #628
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,958
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

This is another example of Massport working with what they've got - a small footprint. It will be a nice upgrade once it's done in 4 years. Is it perfect? No. But given the space constraints, it should be a nice project.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:20 PM   #629
dshoost88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,554
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
Creating some new curb space between B2 & C would be nice. Any of that in the plans? (hard to see in what's posted)
I read through the entire slide deck yesterday during lunch... and then a little into work that afternoon (2-3 hours total). It's amazing seeing the work going on at Logan Airport and with the rest of Massport. Highly recommend taking the time to watch through.

RE the curb space: Massport acknowledges the symptoms of travelers getting dropped off at the airport and how that impacts number of vehicle trips to/from the airport. They currently celebrate Logan Airport having 30% of passengers arrive by high occupancy vehicles (subway, MBTA bus, silver line, Logan Express, ferry, private coach, private shuttle, hotel shuttle)... that's higher than the share of any major airport in the US. And they've set a goal to increase that to 40% passenger arrival via HOV. That would have a meaningful impact on the demand for curbside space at/between terminals.
dshoost88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:28 PM   #630
jass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,411
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Was this posted? Directly relevant to curb space demand + MassPorts parking business model

Quote:
THE EMERGENCE of app-based ride-hailing services such as Uber and Lyft has transformed the way business travellers get to and from the airport. And it has also blown a hole in the finances of many airports. Under threat, particularly in North America, is their income from car parks, which makes up two-fifths of non-airline-related revenues across the continent, and car-rental concessions, which brings in a further one-fifth. Revenues from parking are falling short of forecast budgets by 10% or more per year, airport managers say. Many airports at first tried to ban Uber’s and Lyft’s cars from their taxi ranks, but drivers found ways round it, in some cases picking up rides from nearby houses. Now more are allowing Uber and Lyft to use their facilities and are looking at ways to make up the lost revenue from elsewhere.

A new report from LEK Consulting, a consultancy, exposes the impact of these apps on airports. Between 2014 and 2017 the share of American business-travel trips taken with such apps rocketed from 8% to 62%, while those taken in taxis fell from 37% to 8%. Those taken in hired cars also fell, from 55% to 30%. This trend has fundamentally changed the way travellers get to the airport, particularly in major metropolitan areas. At San Francisco’s airport, for example, the share of airport drop-offs using such apps has increased more than sevenfold in the same period, while taxis and the like have lost more than half their market share.
Full article:

https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2...-uber-and-lyft
jass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:32 PM   #631
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 2,452
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Massport does charge Uber/Lyft $3.50 per pickup. And anyway Logan has a shortage of parking even with Uber/Lyft.
tysmith95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 12:35 AM   #632
jass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,411
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
Massport does charge Uber/Lyft $3.50 per pickup. And anyway Logan has a shortage of parking even with Uber/Lyft.
$3.50 is nothing compared to a week of parking at $35.00 a DAY
jass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 06:28 AM   #633
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,958
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

If Massport does build an automated people mover, do you think that could cause an uptick in those opting to take mass transit? Having a direct link to the Blue Line would be really nice (apart from the shuttle bus). I feel like some people forgo the silver line (maybe because they view it as a glorified bus?) and instead ask for a ride or take an Uber/Lyft, etc.?

At the very least an automated people mover will remove a number of buses and that should help free up roadway space.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 07:46 AM   #634
BosDevelop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,175
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
$3.50 is nothing compared to a week of parking at $35.00 a DAY
and once you hit 24 hours and 1 second, it jumps to $53. You could conceivably pay an extra $18 for less than 1 minute of parking if you time it wrong.
BosDevelop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 08:00 AM   #635
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,783
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by mass88 View Post
I feel like some people forgo the silver line (maybe because they view it as a glorified bus?) and instead ask for a ride or take an Uber/Lyft, etc.?

.
To be fair - it IS a bus. I'm not even sure it's glorified...
CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 08:23 AM   #636
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,686
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Massport has put out for the preliminary work at Terminal E:

https://www.massport.com/capitalprog...C2/L338-C2.pdf

Note the part about a ground boarding operation. I'm not sure when the last time was that happened at Logan for anything other than Cape Air.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 09:42 AM   #637
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,771
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
Massport has put out for the preliminary work at Terminal E:

https://www.massport.com/capitalprog...C2/L338-C2.pdf

Note the part about a ground boarding operation. I'm not sure when the last time was that happened at Logan for anything other than Cape Air.
I have had it happen (ground boarding) on several international flights out of E during the past 3 years, due to the gate shortage.
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 03:39 PM   #638
cden4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,081
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Is there any talk of creating dedicated bus lanes for accessing the airport terminals at all?
cden4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 07:03 PM   #639
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,783
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by cden4 View Post
Is there any talk of creating dedicated bus lanes for accessing the airport terminals at all?
Talk? Heck once this b-c project is done, you'll have close to a full bus circuit on the arrivals level, and something substantial on the departures level too.

The trick is that it's not fully separated from mixedtraffic - and it probably doesn't need to be. Because non-bus traffic doesn't typically stop at more than 1 terminal, that means that the separated lanes that connect adjacent terminals ...a-b, b-c (to be built) and c-e .... are essentially bus-only. And then there are bus-specific drop off zones at each of the terminals themselves.

That leaves merging traffic as the only real traffic-driven delay factor, and that can probably be managed by active stewardship of the curb space. Note also for example that the bus curbs in the new C layout will be intentially aligned with the feeder lanes from b and to e (but not totally walled off from mixed traffic). Same story with E, at least on the arrivals level. (And the feeder to A from harborside drive)

So this model gives you much of the benefit of a totally distinct bus loop, but without the considerable cost of grade-separating a lane all the way around the ring, and especially of creating the curb space to touch that ring without intersecting the general traffic flow.....best to save that for steel wheels
CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 10:35 AM   #640
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,686
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Final EEA for all Terminal C work (roadways, canopy, connector):

http://www.massport.com/media/3030/t...a_compiled.pdf

Some thoughts: I hadn't realized how far down the pier the new part of Terminal C would go - it would essentially double the width of the pier around Gate C25. Also, the gate numbers are still freaking nonsense.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Logan Airport mass88 Transit and Infrastructure 32 06-28-2013 07:36 AM
If Logan Airport were moved.... JS38 Development Projects 26 11-24-2008 04:25 PM
New Logan 9/11 Monument bostonman Development Projects 28 09-12-2008 12:55 PM
If We Moved Logan Airport... Waldorf General Architecture & Urban Planning 4 04-05-2007 03:25 PM
Welcome to Portland. Business friendly capital of the world grittys457 Greater New England 0 01-12-2007 07:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.