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Old 06-19-2019, 08:11 AM   #1461
F-Line to Dudley
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichomega View Post
"You know what I'm talking about" was in reference to the Blue Line Door Buttons, which was clearly "There are buttons, like the blue line" not "The buttons are in the exact same locations and operate exactly like the Blue Line ones down to the wiring schematics"

And you and they are saying exactly the same thing about station upgrade funding: It's a separate budget.
That wasn't a mixed reply; the post in question had nothing to do with the door buttons dealt with separately...just complaining about the irrelevant Wellington platform looking ugly next to the pretty cars.

We deal with a LOT of that noise in this thread.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:28 AM   #1462
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by Jahvon09 View Post
Told you that they had them. Just like on the Blue line.
I am pretty sure those are just handicap help buttons, not door openers.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:18 AM   #1463
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by jass View Post
I am pretty sure those are just handicap help buttons, not door openers.
I also suspect they are, similar to what the Type 8's have, since these trains have bridging devices built in to bridge the gap at platforms. The original specs included an option for door open buttons but I don't think it was exercised. However the original specs specifically say:

Quote:
Bridgeplate Request pushbuttons shall be fitted at ADA compliant locations on the interior and exterior of each of the doorways fitted with bridging mechanisms.
1. Pushbutton illumination shall follow the scheme described in T 06.03.03, Internal
and External Passenger Door Open Buttons.
2. Pushbutton activation shall sound a tone in the cab and illuminate an indicator on
the dash until the Bridgeplate Retract pushbutton is energized.
3. Pushbuttons shall be designed in accordance with ADA guidelines
The specs also discuss door open buttons to be placed at every door but it is specifically called out as an option:
Quote:
6.03.03. Internal and External Passenger Door Open Buttons (OPTION)
A. A passenger operated "Door Open" push button shall be provided adjacent to each doorway, on both sides, and on both the interior and exterior (4 buttons per doorway). The pushbutton shall be LED Lighted with amber LEDs indicating "Enabled" state. When illuminated, the words “Push to Open” or a pictogram showing doors opening shall be clearly visible.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:54 PM   #1464
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

The door buttons on the Blue Line trains are there mainly for Bowden Station because the outbound platform is not long enough & the driver can't see it. The rest of the platforms all accommodate 6-car trains.

All of the Orange Line platforms can accommodate six cars. They might be in the doorways themselves. probably to alert the train personnel that there's a person in a wheelchair who is trying to get on or off.

Last edited by Jahvon09; 06-19-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:00 PM   #1465
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by Jahvon09 View Post
The door buttons on the Blue Line trains are there mainly for Bowden Station because the outbound platform is not long enough & the driver can't see it. The rest of the platforms all accommodate 6-car trains.
While this is indeed the reason why the MBTA sought them, passenger operated doors are standard in Europe because

a) They decrease door cycling, reducing maintenance
b) They prevent the doors from being open without reason, keeping the interior a comfortable temperature

The only reason the MBTA doesnt make them standard on the blue line is because no one in management actually rides the train
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:31 PM   #1466
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

I wish we had rear-door buttons on buses rather than relying on the driver!
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:35 PM   #1467
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by cden4 View Post
I wish we had rear-door buttons on buses rather than relying on the driver!

On the newer MBTA buses, there IS a stop request button on just about every pole on the buses.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:32 AM   #1468
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by cden4 View Post
I wish we had rear-door buttons on buses rather than relying on the driver!
Hopefully with AFC 2.0 (whenever that comes out) opening both doors every time will become standard... No reason to not open the back door then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
The only reason the MBTA doesnt make them standard on the blue line is because no one in management actually rides the train
Its funny you say that because the FMCB chair Joseph Aiello was complaining at the last meeting how his Blue Line commute is getting too crowded and were there any plans for it. Just kinda laughed because the Blue Line is the least crowded line and the most reliable line, if he thinks that is crowded he should try any other rapid transit line at rush hour...
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:16 AM   #1469
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by Jahvon09 View Post
On the newer MBTA buses, there IS a stop request button on just about every pole on the buses.
Thats not the same as a door open button.

The problem is when a stop is requested, someone exits through the front, and the driver doesnt open the back door for the other people
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:32 AM   #1470
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

For several years now, the standard practice on MBTA buses has been to open all doors at every stop. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've had to shout rear door in the past 10 years. Are there some routes where they don't do this?

Anyway, on the question of trains, I've used passenger operated doors on other systems and always figured we didn't have them here for some sort of safety reason, kind of like the way riders are no longer allowed to open the doors and traps on the commuter rail.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:11 AM   #1471
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
For several years now, the standard practice on MBTA buses has been to open all doors at every stop. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've had to shout rear door in the past 10 years. Are there some routes where they don't do this?
Absolutely yes there are routes that not only don't open the rear door, they REFUSE to open the rear door. 70 Central Square to Watertown, for example.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:35 AM   #1472
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Huh, never had that problem--in my experience bus drivers will open the door if they can't see clear to the rear or if they can see someone waiting to alight from the rear door, which makes everyone happy 99%. Every once in a while I'll shout for the back door. I'm a fairly regular 1 and 77 rider these days, but have done stints on many routes over the years.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:12 AM   #1473
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Absolutely yes there are routes that not only don't open the rear door, they REFUSE to open the rear door. 70 Central Square to Watertown, for example.
I'd imagine it is certain drivers or stops (or combinations) that have perceived dangers? I just used the 70 yesterday afternoon round-trip to go to the RMV, and used the rear door both times. But I was only using (and only paying attention to others at) major stops with a decent number of people both boarding and deboarding -- the mall/RMV stop both ways, Barry's Corner outbound and Central Sq inbound.

Last edited by bluishgreen; 06-20-2019 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Clarify last sentence
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:46 PM   #1474
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by bluishgreen View Post
I'd imagine it is certain drivers or stops (or combinations) that have perceived dangers? I just used the 70 yesterday afternoon round-trip to go to the RMV, and used the rear door both times. But I was only using (and only paying attention to others at) major stops with a decent number of people both boarding and deboarding -- the mall/RMV stop both ways, Barry's Corner outbound and Central Sq inbound.
Not perceived danger, perceived fare avoidance.

Same reason the green line was absolutely crippled by the decision to not open all doors above ground a few years ago.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #1475
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
I also suspect they are, similar to what the Type 8's have, since these trains have bridging devices built in to bridge the gap at platforms. The original specs included an option for door open buttons but I don't think it was exercised. However the original specs specifically say:



The specs also discuss door open buttons to be placed at every door but it is specifically called out as an option:


Amtrak's trains could use these. But I don't see that happening until they get newer trains. Hopefully, the new Acela trains will have them!

Ever board an Amtrak train? Have you noticed how big the gap is between the train doorway & the edge of the platform?!! Huge!! You have to rapidly yank your suitcase across so thar its wheels don't get stuck!!
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:30 PM   #1476
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Absolutely yes there are routes that not only don't open the rear door, they REFUSE to open the rear door.
That differs considerably from the suggested passenger flow aboard New York buses, where a stop request is answered by a female voice that asks passengers to "please exit through the rear door."

Returning to the topic of this thread, will the new cars sound a chime when the doors close (as they do in NYC)?

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Old 06-20-2019, 07:34 PM   #1477
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

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Originally Posted by Norval Elliot View Post
That differs considerably from the suggested passenger flow aboard New York buses, where a stop request is answered by a female voice that asks passengers to "please exit through the rear door."

Returning to the topic of this thread, will the new cars sound a chime when the doors close (as they do in NYC)?

From the video I posted a few pages back (https://mobile.twitter.com/ndbip_off...56389463519232) it looks like they'll beep before closing similar to the #3 red line, but the driver had the doors open too short for the station announcement to finish so I'm not sure if there is an audio recording for door closing. I'd like to imagine a future where all the MBTA lines plus the commuter rail used a similar audio system/voice/chimes for consistency Because right now every single mode sounds wildly different. Hell the commuter rail even has different chimes and different voices depending on what coach you're in, I heard a British announcement yesterday...
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:40 PM   #1478
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
From the video I posted a few pages back (https://mobile.twitter.com/ndbip_off...56389463519232) it looks like they'll beep before closing similar to the #3 red line, but the driver had the doors open too short for the station announcement to finish so I'm not sure if there is an audio recording for door closing. I'd like to imagine a future where all the MBTA lines plus the commuter rail used a similar audio system/voice/chimes for consistency Because right now every single mode sounds wildly different. Hell the commuter rail even has different chimes and different voices depending on what coach you're in, I heard a British announcement yesterday...
True consistency would probably require the chimes to be pumped through the train's speakers instead of on a door-mount chime noisemaker, such that it can be made part-and-parcel with the ASA. But there probably is a justifiable reason why they're on wholly separate speakers with no electrical dependencies on anything else. The door chimes themselves are just whatever was on sale in bulk in some electronics catalog that given week. Hell, the pre-rebuild Green Line 3700's quite literally sounded like a Radio Shack motion sensor ding-dong. They're tunable if you know something about electronics, but not enough riders are going to care enough about perfect pitch accuracy in a door chime for it to be worth the time to designate a "Head Chimey Guy" to go around doing nothing but pitch-correcting transit vehicles one door at a time.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:31 PM   #1479
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Absolutely yes there are routes that not only don't open the rear door, they REFUSE to open the rear door. 70 Central Square to Watertown, for example.
I rode the 70 over that stretch today, and I distinctly remember someone asking for the rear door and it being opened.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:15 AM   #1480
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Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
They're tunable if you know something about electronics, but not enough riders are going to care enough about perfect pitch accuracy in a door chime for it to be worth the time to designate a "Head Chimey Guy" to go around doing nothing but pitch-correcting transit vehicles one door at a time.
I'd challenge that. Door chime noises - and chimes in general - are major elements of branding for transportation companies that do it right. CDG in Paris has had specific chimes composed for them. New Lincoln cars have chimes played by an orchestra...

The MBTA had Frank Oglesby, who got famous right at the end when the Globe wrote him up, and now has nothing. Record some tubular bells or something. Ask a class at Berkley to help you.

PS - Yes, I get that what you're saying is that the chimes they use can't do that, but they could replace them with ones that can.
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