archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #6101
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 2,435
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

I'm going to make a partially educated guess and say that this red line derailment was some sort of mechanical failure.
tysmith95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 08:23 PM   #6102
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 246
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefalarchitect View Post
Haven't looked into it in depth or watched the press conference(s), but I'm going to guess the location of the train is making it difficult to move it. Depending on how they position the crane, they made need access to the right of way, and they can't cut off the limited service they currently have, so have to wait until later (at least until after peak hours) and then attempt to re-rail it.

There's also no word on the condition of the switch (if that's the culprit) or any other resulting damage. That may take a few hours/days depending on the severity and complexity.

Also, karma.
Yeah the other big issue it's it's stuck directly under a bridge, combined with maintaining the active commuter rail lines. They've got a crane positioned on the bridge overhead I believe. Also from the press conference and some pictures, looks like it did some damage to a signal bungalow which if so, is a longer process to fully repair.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2019, 08:45 PM   #6103
stefalarchitect
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 518
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
Yeah the other big issue it's it's stuck directly under a bridge, combined with maintaining the active commuter rail lines. They've got a crane positioned on the bridge overhead I believe. Also from the press conference and some pictures, looks like it did some damage to a signal bungalow which if so, is a longer process to fully repair.
They have both a crane on trucks on the right of way and a crane on Columbia Ave. Sounds like it is going to be a slow process picking it up..
stefalarchitect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 06:01 AM   #6104
sneijder
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 29
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

According to twitter,
"During the derailment, the train struck multiple signal bungalows outside of JFK/UMass. These are the sheds that house the hardware that controls our signal system. Looking ahead, bungalows will need to be rebuilt, new signals & cables installed, tracks repaired. At this time, we can't say how long that will take."

Resulting in manual signaling from the control center, 10mph through the station and junction, countdown clocks turned off, reduced headways. Can't blame anyone for taking a TNC this morning. So much for cutting down on I93 traffic.
sneijder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 07:17 AM   #6105
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,615
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneijder View Post
According to twitter,
"During the derailment, the train struck multiple signal bungalows outside of JFK/UMass. These are the sheds that house the hardware that controls our signal system. Looking ahead, bungalows will need to be rebuilt, new signals & cables installed, tracks repaired. At this time, we can't say how long that will take."

Resulting in manual signaling from the control center, 10mph through the station and junction, countdown clocks turned off, reduced headways. Can't blame anyone for taking a TNC this morning. So much for cutting down on I93 traffic.
This is what they need to fix:

https://twitter.com/JacqueGoddard/st...81686588682240
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 07:40 AM   #6106
Coyote137
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Jamaica Plain
Posts: 680
Send a message via AIM to Coyote137
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Wow, that doesn't look good.
__________________
All opinions expressed in this post represent the views of your employer.
Coyote137 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #6107
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,938
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Hopefully the MBTA moves this critical infrastructure to a safer location.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #6108
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 246
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mass88 View Post
Hopefully the MBTA moves this critical infrastructure to a safer location.
Generally speaking, signal infrastructure must be near the signals. And generally speaking, signals must be next to the tracks. Also has to be within MBTA owned right of way.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 10:29 AM   #6109
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,983
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
Generally speaking, signal infrastructure must be near the signals. And generally speaking, signals must be next to the tracks. Also has to be within MBTA owned right of way.
They've already consolidated a lot of the signal plant in that spot into these bungaloes for easier servicing. On the plus side, consolidated hardware means the intensive repairs can go faster than if there were damage to relays all sprawled out over a couple acres. On the minus side, that train literally hit a hole-in-one on most disabling possible place to derail. Literally a dozen feet in either direction would've spared the bungaloes from getting struck.

On balance, though, consolidated plant is so much easier that it's well worth the single-point risk. This is a derailment you probably couldn't repeat in terms of specific lineside damage profile in a simulator 99,999 times out of 100,000. The derailment itself may have a cause, but the exact strike point is pure fluke.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 12:08 PM   #6110
ulrichomega
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 28
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Any chance of meaningful upgrades happening while they're sourcing replacements?
ulrichomega is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:57 PM   #6111
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 246
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulrichomega View Post
Any chance of meaningful upgrades happening while they're sourcing replacements?
No this will almost certainly be a like for like replacement, a bare minimum to get things up and running ASAP using in stock parts. A full signal redesign for the red and orange line is already in process with Barletta and friends. The full signal system replacement along both lines is expected to reach substantial completion in mid-2022. Wouldn't make any sense to upgrade them now and again then.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 06:45 PM   #6112
stellarfun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: salem ma and washington dc
Posts: 4,623
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

An on-line Globe article earlier today said this set of bungalows is to be moved away from trackside at this location as part of the upgrade. That reference is not in the on-line articles this evening.
__________________
A man gazing on the stars is at the mercy of the puddles in the road
stellarfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 07:18 AM   #6113
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,983
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
An on-line Globe article earlier today said this set of bungalows is to be moved away from trackside at this location as part of the upgrade. That reference is not in the on-line articles this evening.
They struck that sentence and instead edited to reference a linky to an earlier article last year about the new RL signal system to avoid reader confusion about interpreting the "move the bungalow" statement as moving it for the accident repairs, rather than the upgrade project that needs 4 years to complete. Article ends up a little more informative that way, as the link-out to the piece from last Fall goes into some detail about what a signal bungalow is/does, what makes the T's so old, and how they're going to be made brand new again and more resilient to damage by 2021-22.

BTW...this is the major bungalow that got hit, with a view inside of all the equipment that sustained damage:
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 07:28 AM   #6114
odurandina
Senior Member
 
odurandina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,591
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

ouch.
odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:32 AM   #6115
sneijder
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 29
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Didn't the car derail right on top of a switch north of JFK?
sneijder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:43 AM   #6116
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,755
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
No this will almost certainly be a like for like replacement, a bare minimum to get things up and running ASAP using in stock parts. A full signal redesign for the red and orange line is already in process with Barletta and friends. The full signal system replacement along both lines is expected to reach substantial completion in mid-2022. Wouldn't make any sense to upgrade them now and again then.
Actually, the T is at least talking to the contractor scheduled for the signal upgrades, to see if they can so some accelerated work in the JFK location, in keeping with the 2022 upgrades. Trying to not duplicate the efforts, but also get the signals back on line.
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 11:52 AM   #6117
Jahvon09
Senior Member
 
Jahvon09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,433
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Looks like some of the 3rd rail was damaged in that mishap!!
Jahvon09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:41 PM   #6118
Charlie_mta
Senior Member
 
Charlie_mta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,349
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Good article from WGBH on MBTA funding needs and proposals:

https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary...the-t-is-today
__________________
"The penny candy store beyond the El
is where i first fell in love
with unreality.....
Outside the leaves were falling as they died.
A wind had blown away the sun."
----Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Charlie_mta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 04:46 AM   #6119
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 2,435
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_mta View Post
Good article from WGBH on MBTA funding needs and proposals:

https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentary...the-t-is-today
I don't disagree with him, but it's sort of non specific.

The mbta is in the process of replacing all of the orange and red cars, and there is a 218 million dollar project set to update the signals on those lines to a modern system for 2022.

I think what we're seeing now is underinvestment 10-20 years ago that government is slow to overcome.
tysmith95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 04:47 AM   #6120
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 2,435
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahvon09 View Post
Looks like some of the 3rd rail was damaged in that mishap!!
That's far from the biggest issue. Destroying the horribly outdated signal box is why it's taking so long to fix.
tysmith95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A discussion regarding Chinatown commuter guy Boston Architecture & Urbanism 31 05-07-2016 05:30 AM
MBTA thread(s) cleanup Arlington Board Issues and Announcements 2 03-12-2015 05:46 PM
General RER-type service thread BostonUrbEx Transit and Infrastructure 26 11-22-2014 01:16 PM
General Real Estate/Rental Discussion BostonUrbEx Boston Architecture & Urbanism 5 04-16-2012 01:46 PM
aB Awards General Discussion statler 2008 Awards Nominations & Discussion 10 02-18-2009 05:40 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.