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Old 11-05-2015, 05:41 PM   #1
Mike
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Under Construction 660 Harrison Avenue | Harrison Albany Block | South End

this is from the Globe

Quote:
A stretch of the South End that has seen a flood of big development in recent years is about to see its biggest development yet.

Real estate company Leggat McCall filed preliminary plans with the city Thursday to build about 700 apartments in two buildings on a block between Harrison Ave. and Albany Street near Boston Medical Center. If approved, it will be the latest in a string of projects that are transforming a long-industrial stretch of the city into one of Bostonís hottest housing markets.

A letter of intent Leggat filed Thursday with the Boston Redevelopment Authority lays out plans to turn most of a block of parking lots and small office buildings into a pair of apartment towers reaching as high as 19 stories, with a pocket park and retail along the street.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...JgI/story.html
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:46 PM   #2
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

19 stories is Troy-sized, by the way.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:04 PM   #3
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End




Good. Build it high. As long as the buildings worth preserving have at least the facades saved, which I think is feasible given the size of the site.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:03 AM   #4
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

Are they keeping the building that's pictured in the globe article? They should, seems worth it. I don't like that they want to put some of the low income housing off site, I know it's expensive here but this isn't downtown, there's no reason not to have the affordable units right where they are.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:01 AM   #5
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Originally Posted by Suffolk 83 View Post
Are they keeping the building that's pictured in the globe article? They should, seems worth it. I don't like that they want to put some of the low income housing off site, I know it's expensive here but this isn't downtown, there's no reason not to have the affordable units right where they are.
The building in the Globe photo is 575 Albany (Globe photo is from Google streetview) and its being saved.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:03 AM   #6
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

God dammit Globe.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:36 AM   #7
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

It would have helped if they put the side streets. "Between Harrison and Albany" is like a mile long stretch. I believe it's between E Dedham and E Canton.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:39 AM   #8
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

Side note -- this block is directly across Harrison from Cathedral Housing, one of the worst remaining "projects" in the city. At some point, this affordable housing mess needs to be updated (as others in the city have been) otherwise this area will stall out. There has to be a limit to the number of people willing to pay elevated market rents to live next to a crumbling project.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:15 AM   #9
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

More troubling, I think is that the article also says that Quinzanis Bakery is under contract. At some point, there still need to be places for the businesses that supply the city. Quinzanis supplies many restaurants in Boston. As we push out these businesses we are turning the city in to nothing but residences, offices, and restaurants. There is more to cities than that. You need other business besides offices and hospitals. With the push to rid the city of food distributors, manufacturing, and anything else, you lose the dynamic of a functioning city. Sad.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:23 AM   #10
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

Quinzanis Bakery sold their property and announced closure a few months ago. There was a nice write up about the point you just articulated in the Globe. I'm sure it was posted somewhere on aB.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:28 AM   #11
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

^ I get what you're saying Semass, but Boston is a small city geographically. A commercial bakery like Quinzani's can easily serve the city from the outskirts as Piantedosi's does from Malden and Iggy's Bread does from Cambridge.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:30 AM   #12
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Originally Posted by Semass View Post
More troubling, I think is that the article also says that Quinzanis Bakery is under contract. At some point, there still need to be places for the businesses that supply the city. Quinzanis supplies many restaurants in Boston. As we push out these businesses we are turning the city in to nothing but residences, offices, and restaurants. There is more to cities than that. You need other business besides offices and hospitals. With the push to rid the city of food distributors, manufacturing, and anything else, you lose the dynamic of a functioning city. Sad.
One key point that was clear in the Globe and other articles about Quinzanis was that they were not "forced out" -- the current generation chose to cash out, and not seek a location to relocate the business, because they were not interested in running the business. There were options available for relocation; the younger generation simply did not want to keep running the bakery.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:06 AM   #13
Suffolk 83
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Side note -- this block is directly across Harrison from Cathedral Housing, one of the worst remaining "projects" in the city. At some point, this affordable housing mess needs to be updated (as others in the city have been) otherwise this area will stall out. There has to be a limit to the number of people willing to pay elevated market rents to live next to a crumbling project.
Not sure about this, it hasn't stopped people so far and there's already fancy new stuff bordering it. Post sounds a little elitist if you ask me
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:37 AM   #14
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Not sure about this, it hasn't stopped people so far and there's already fancy new stuff bordering it. Post sounds a little elitist if you ask me
Since I live right in the middle of a ton of low income housing in Chinatown, it is hardly elitist.

Cathedral Housing, though, is simply a mess that needs (and deserves) an update.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:32 PM   #15
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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^ I get what you're saying Semass, but Boston is a small city geographically. A commercial bakery like Quinzani's can easily serve the city from the outskirts as Piantedosi's does from Malden and Iggy's Bread does from Cambridge.
Nico -- To grow Boston City population such as the Mayor's plan for 50k to 100k more residents and without any possibility of increasing the City area -- Any district which is walking distance from the Financial District, Seaport / Innovation District, Back Bay or Longwood -- should be primarily considered for housing and associated local retail / restaurants. Other uses are less important in those areas.

There is plenty of room in the Marine Industrial Park and other areas such as Readville which are still highly industrial to supply those products which should / can be locally sourced, as well as to manufacture products for export [e.g. Robots and Beer in the Seaport / Innovation District].

Re: your comment about Piantedosi's -- Yesterday, I heard on the radio from Piantedosi himself that they are the buyer of Quinzani's

Piantedosi has a highly automated, modern, and very efficient wholesale bakery operation in Malden
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:39 PM   #16
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Good. Build it high. As long as the buildings worth preserving have at least the facades saved, which I think is feasible given the size of the site.
FK4 -- looking at that map -- with Washington Village on the SE, Ink Block N and the new development to the west -- it looks as though the Flower Exchange and Widdett Circle are going to be development targets in the future.

Indeed looking at all the rail -- it looks a lot like the area between Copley and Mass Ave looked like before the Pru and Copley Place -- some developer should come up with a grand scheme and start the ball rolling for the long term conversion of that gap in the center of the City -- all that rail should go under a deck or even underground with of course all the diesels replaced by electric
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:46 PM   #17
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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FK4 -- looking at that map -- with Washington Village on the SE, Ink Block N and the new development to the west -- it looks as though the Flower Exchange and Widdett Circle are going to be development targets in the future.

Indeed looking at all the rail -- it looks a lot like the area between Copley and Mass Ave looked like before the Pru and Copley Place -- some developer should come up with a grand scheme and start the ball rolling for the long term conversion of that gap in the center of the City -- all that rail should go under a deck or even underground with of course all the diesels replaced by electric
Wait, haven't we been here before? I think it was the 2024 Olympics Grand Vision for an Olympic Park.

Biggest challenge in what you are suggesting (challenge = cost) is that unlike the Pru/Copley or Beacon Yards coming up -- Widdett and the Cabot Yards are critical and very active yards. At the Pru and Beacon Yards, most of the "yards" went away. Only a few through lines remained. Here this all has to stay and be fully active. Big cost difference.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:05 PM   #18
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Wait, haven't we been here before? I think it was the 2024 Olympics Grand Vision for an Olympic Park.

Biggest challenge in what you are suggesting (challenge = cost) is that unlike the Pru/Copley or Beacon Yards coming up -- Widdett and the Cabot Yards are critical and very active yards. At the Pru and Beacon Yards, most of the "yards" went away. Only a few through lines remained. Here this all has to stay and be fully active. Big cost difference.
Jeff - Yes that is true about cost -- However, there is such a potential for a Pru Center - Copley Place scale of development of a very centrally located district and which at the same time would improve the overall look and feel

Also as opposed to the Pru and Copley you don't have to cover the highway where spanning the lanes is a challenge -- at Widdett and Cabot individual rail sidings or even active tracks can have posts located reasonably close to the rails and that means the posts can be as close as any builder would want

Note that its not necessary that the development have the same peak height as the Pru area -- but it should have a similar overall FAR
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:14 PM   #19
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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Re: your comment about Piantedosi's -- Yesterday, I heard on the radio from Piantedosi himself that they are the buyer of Quinzani's
They may have bought certain assets, but they definitely didn't buy the land in the South End.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:20 PM   #20
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Re: Leggat McCall proposal | Between Harrison Ave and Albany St | South End

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They may have bought certain assets, but they definitely didn't buy the land in the South End.
No -- Piantedosi said that they had bought the bakery -- much like you might buy a DD franchise

Presumably -- Piantedosi intends to maintain the name and trademarks -- I'm sure that they hope to continue to supply the Q's customers, and perhaps the deal included some arrangements to hire some key employees, purchase some equipment and recipes?
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