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Old 08-19-2016, 12:40 AM   #41
odurandina
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

1 very confused nimby puppet masquerading as a City Councillor is going to continue to hear about his poor choice to smash 90 feet off those big residence towers in his hood. i'd like to see the 90 feet put back up.

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Old 08-19-2016, 09:15 AM   #42
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

This might come off as sort of, reverse racist or something, but I would like to see Dudley continue to be the center of black culture in the city and I would actually hope that a development like this would attract well healed African Americans to the area. If this area is to become "gentrified", let's hope it is by black folk.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:34 AM   #43
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

^That might be going a little far, but I mostly agree with the sentiment. I would like to see the area improve but not fully gentrify. If this could be a urban core for middle income blacks, latinos, asians and whites that would be great in my book. Let's hope it doesnt become too upscale and chase the common citizen away
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:39 AM   #44
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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This might come off as sort of, reverse racist or something, but I would like to see Dudley continue to be the center of black culture in the city and I would actually hope that a development like this would attract well healed African Americans to the area. If this area is to become "gentrified", let's hope it is by black folk.
IMO, the spirit of what you're hoping seems to be a desire for everyone to enjoy a centralized place of economic and cultural foundation. I grew up in the area and attended the Deaborn Middle School in 97'. Much of which has taken place so far is in alignment with a small project I did around 2000. I've always had a desire to see Dudley thrive as an economic and cultural center of strength for the various African and brown peoples who call Boston, more specifically Roxbury, home. The city's investment in Dudley is great and should continue a reach for such a focus. It will be a place for everyone, however all groups of people deserve an unobstructed opportunity to centralize business etc that benefits their community. Whatever name anyone may place on our hope, "fair" should be included.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:27 AM   #45
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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This might come off as sort of, reverse racist or something, but I would like to see Dudley continue to be the center of black culture in the city and I would actually hope that a development like this would attract well healed African Americans to the area. If this area is to become "gentrified", let's hope it is by black folk.
No problem. All for it. Chinatown too. And we won't talk about preserving Charlestown or Southie LOL. The big towers help Roxbury; they are just the neighborhoods adding capacity in the vertical direction because that's the only way you can add the capacity that's required. It doesn't hurt Roxbury in any when you increase the number of habitable units... quite the contrary. The neighborhoods aren't yet close to functional levels of density. There's a difference between density and allowing gentrification to destroy a neighborhood.

If we're gonna lay it out on the table; We have people of color that are new to Boston that require housing. If their neighborhood of choice should turn out to be Roxbury, we should be able to build them something - and still protect Roxbury's underlying character.' I'll admit, i'm uncomforable about calling non-whites moving in as 'gentrification.' As the argument goes; if we can't protect the character of a community when we agree that to do so is desirable - then how could we justify building at all? We're building 280'. We should be open to building a beautiful 400' tower. The more units - the more affordable units.

And what makes people think that Roxbury locals wouldn't want to have stunning views of our city? What is this obsession with opposing height? The size just gives Boston more options and less pressure to demolish entire 3-decker neighborhoods down the road (exactly where Jackson's shortsightedness is taking us).

I hate to break it to the West End gang, but 6 Martha is going bye bye too.

This utopia thing is over. NO!! Build it now stupid. The T is mismanaged and not operating near capacity. Those issues will be addressed because the public will properly demand it.

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Old 08-19-2016, 11:25 AM   #46
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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No problem. All for it. Chinatown too. And we won't talk about preserving Charlestown or Southie LOL. The big towers help Roxbury are just the neighborhoods adding capacity in the vertical direction because that's the only way you can add the capacity that's required. It doesn't hurt Roxbury in any when you increase the number of habitable units... quite the contrary. The neighborhoods aren't yet close to functional levels of density. There's a difference between density and allowing gentrification to destroy a neighborhood.

If we're gonna lay it out on the table; We have people of color that are new to Boston that require housing. If their neighborhood of choice should turn out to be Roxbury, we should be able to build them something - and still protect Roxbury's underlying character.' I'll admit, i'm uncomforable about calling non-whites moving in as 'gentrification.' As the argument goes; if we can't protect the character of a community when we agree that to do so is desirable - then how could we justify building at all? We're building 280'. We should be open to building a beautiful 400' tower. The more units - the more affordable units.

And what makes people think that Roxbury locals wouldn't want to have stunning views of our city? What is this obsession with opposing height? The size just gives Boston more options and less pressure to demolish entire 3-decker neighborhoods down the road (exactly where Jackson's shortsightedness is taking us).

I hate to break it to the West End gang, but 6 Martha is going bye bye too.

This utopia thing is over. NO!! Build it now stupid. The T is mismanaged and not operating near capacity. Those issues will be addressed because the public will properly demand it.
You prob work for the BRA and just use this forum to vent...lol
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:35 PM   #47
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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This might come off as sort of, reverse racist or something, but I would like to see Dudley continue to be the center of black culture in the city and I would actually hope that a development like this would attract well healed African Americans to the area. If this area is to become "gentrified", let's hope it is by black folk.
Gentrified? Architecture looks like the PJs.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:39 PM   #48
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

While I understand the reasoning behind fear of gentrification I don't think it should justify blocking developments. I'm sure that most of the population in Roxbury would rather live in a 40% black vibrant and safe neighborhood than a 90% black run down ghetto. Yes it stinks that poorer people are no longer able to afford formally poor Boston neighborhoods but that's going to happen even if no development is realized.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:59 PM   #49
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

Put me in the camp that believes everything should be gentrified. Let's not preserve rough areas out of some misguided attempt at cultural preservation. Nothing lasts forever.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:42 PM   #50
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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Put me in the camp that believes everything should be gentrified. Let's not preserve rough areas out of some misguided attempt at cultural preservation. Nothing lasts forever.
It's not so much about "preserving rough areas" as it is about preserving & creating mixed-income/mixed-demographic communities where all can afford to live including large amounts of affordable housing, which practically no one is building because there's no incentive to developers & no political will to force it.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:52 PM   #51
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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It's not so much about "preserving rough areas" as it is about preserving & creating mixed-income/mixed-demographic communities where all can afford to live including large amounts of affordable housing, which practically no one is building because there's no incentive to developers & no political will to force it.
The answer to that problem has always been and will always be expand transportation and make areas further outside the core desirable.

It's fucking ridiculous that Worcester, Lynn, Brockton, Quincy and Lowell aren't better connected to Boston. For fucks sake in parts of the country they're practically just outer neighborhoods of whatever big city we're talking about.Only in Massachusetts is sixty miles or less considered a trek across the globe because our transportation system is so fucking piss poor.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:56 PM   #52
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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The answer to that problem has always been and will always be expand transportation and make areas further outside the core desirable.

It's fucking ridiculous that Worcester, Lynn, Brockton, Quincy and Lowell aren't better connected to Boston. For fucks sake in parts of the country they're practically just outer neighborhoods of whatever big city we're talking about.Only in Massachusetts is sixty miles or less considered a trek across the globe because our transportation system is so fucking piss poor.
That is not true as expanding transportation to those area will also result in gentrification as property values increase in the communities served. No, the solution is to either overbuild (not going to happen) or have some sort of regulation in place to build affordable housing.
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:01 AM   #53
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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That is not true as expanding transportation to those area will also result in gentrification as property values increase in the communities served. No, the solution is to either overbuild (not going to happen) or have some sort of regulation in place to build affordable housing.
KentXie -- Gentrification is just double speak worthy of 1984 -- Change happens -- you either have Detroit type decay or you have South Boston Seaport type growth -- and unfortunately in our kind of society --growth results in [as the military would say] Collateral Damage.

and For all you -- "preserve at all costs" the temporarily dominant culture -- that temporarily dominant culture -- in most cases is a self imposed economic ghetto -- self imposed by the recent immigrants to the community who want something which is comfortable to them.

We should neither "Knock them all down" Nor keep every tenement and trash-filled vacant lot -- government force [i.e. Central Planning] should be as limited as possible to allow the market forces of growth and development to occur naturally

PS: Can one get a Schvitz in Roxbury? the formally dominant Central / Eastern European Jewish culture seems to have not energized the cultural preservationists
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Old 08-20-2016, 01:39 PM   #54
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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PS: Can one get a Schvitz in Roxbury?
Schlitz, man.
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Old 08-20-2016, 03:11 PM   #55
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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Schlitz, man.
I looked up "Schlitz in Roxbury", and apparently google can find you the "best Schlitz in Boston". I don't know about everybody else, but the best Schlitz is a cheap one in your backyard. I ain't paying no $5 for a Schlitz at Bar Louie. (FIRST ON THE LIST!) I want a case for $23 to chill out with some of my dogs. (to keep with the racial tint to my posts).
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:43 PM   #56
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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KentXie -- Gentrification is just double speak worthy of 1984 -- Change happens -- you either have Detroit type decay or you have South Boston Seaport type growth -- and unfortunately in our kind of society --growth results in [as the military would say] Collateral Damage.

and For all you -- "preserve at all costs" the temporarily dominant culture -- that temporarily dominant culture -- in most cases is a self imposed economic ghetto -- self imposed by the recent immigrants to the community who want something which is comfortable to them.

We should neither "Knock them all down" Nor keep every tenement and trash-filled vacant lot -- government force [i.e. Central Planning] should be as limited as possible to allow the market forces of growth and development to occur naturally

PS: Can one get a Schvitz in Roxbury? the formally dominant Central / Eastern European Jewish culture seems to have not energized the cultural preservationists
Point by point:

The term "double speak" (the colloquially accepted spelling is actually "doublespeak") doesn't appear in 1984. Perhaps you meant "doublethink," which in the novel is a type of "Newspeak."

"Change happens" is a meaningless cliche.

There are options for growth besides Detroit and the Seaport.

People have a moral right to find "Collateral Damage" unacceptable, and they have a legal right to pressure their political representatives to prevent or mitigate it.

No one's arguing for "preserve at all costs." The costs of preservation (by which i mean not pushing most of the current residents out) are high, but not prohibitive. And they're worth it, because it's the right thing to do, and because the segregation in Boston's neighborhoods is largely not self-imposed. For one thing, only a quarter of Roxbury's population was born in another country. But more importantly, you need to bone up on some history: for instance, redlining, school redistricting, and the uneven application of the benefits of the New Deal and the G.I. Bill, key factors in allowing older (and largely white) generations of Americans to accumulate wealth. (Try Family Properties by Beryl Satter and Kathleen Frydl's G.I. Bill. J. Anthony Lukas' Common Ground is great narrative history about school districts in Boston.)

No one's arguing for keeping lots vacant, and your precious market forces are inadequate to the needs of the people who already live there.

As others have pointed out, it's Schlitz.


And for goodness sake, if you're going to argue for heartless Social Darwinism, in 2016, at least do it grammatically.
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Old 08-20-2016, 06:06 PM   #57
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

If you don't know what a schvitz or schwitz is and are confusing it with a type of shitty beer with a German, not Yiddish name, then YOU are the ones who need some serious cultural re-education. At minimum, try making sure you're not the one who's wrong before self righteously piling on the corrections.
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Old 08-20-2016, 06:46 PM   #58
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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If you don't know what a schvitz or schwitz is and are confusing it with a type of shitty beer with a German, not Yiddish name, then YOU are the ones who need some serious cultural re-education. At minimum, try making sure you're not the one who's wrong before self righteously piling on the corrections.
Would help if he didn't capitalize it then, right?
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:47 PM   #59
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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If you don't know what a schvitz or schwitz is and are confusing it with a type of shitty beer with a German, not Yiddish name, then YOU are the ones who need some serious cultural re-education. At minimum, try making sure you're not the one who's wrong before self righteously piling on the corrections.
Well said.

As for the original point, the constant ethos of "preserve" leads to trapping the original residents in failing neighborhoods. The current research on gentrification shows that the existing residents tend to do well. That should be no surprise - there are more customers for businesses and higher property prices. The demographic changes occur because of the change in _who_ is moving in. Poor neighborhoods see an awful lot of immigration in and out even when they're poor. It's not clear to me why in the name of "neighborhood character" we should be encouraging poor people to move to poor neighborhoods.
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Old 08-21-2016, 12:38 AM   #60
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Re: Dudley Square Residential Tower | Washington St. | Roxbury

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If you don't know what a schvitz or schwitz is and are confusing it with a type of shitty beer with a German, not Yiddish name, then YOU are the ones who need some serious cultural re-education. At minimum, try making sure you're not the one who's wrong before self righteously piling on the corrections.
Cool off and have a Schlitz tall boy and CC nip chaser, schmuck.
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