archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-16-2017, 07:45 PM   #4841
Wash
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Arlington
Posts: 14
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

The MBTA has released ridership numbers for the period of time when the fairmount line was free.

Apparently, ridership increased about 25% from base numbers in the first week of the program, and by the second week were up 44% from base. These gains didn't continue after the free fares program was dropped.

Wonder what the commuter rail will do with this data.

Source: http://mbta.com/about_the_mbta/news_...6&month=&year=
Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 11:37 PM   #4842
jklo
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 84
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Need more info though. Could just be people who would normally take Hyde Park or Readville (Franklin line) decided to take the Fairmount line because the price was right.
jklo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:15 PM   #4843
bakgwailo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 442
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jklo View Post
Need more info though. Could just be people who would normally take Hyde Park or Readville (Franklin line) decided to take the Fairmount line because the price was right.
I would expect them to have monthly passes though, which shouldn't really effect this. Also, I would think that anyone doing this based on price would have a long time ago - the other stops are Zone 1 ($200.25 a month) vs 1a which is only $84.50.
bakgwailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 03:59 PM   #4844
whittle
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 54
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakgwailo View Post
Also, I would think that anyone doing this based on price would have a long time ago - the other stops are Zone 1 ($200.25 a month) vs 1a which is only $84.50.
That is true of Hyde Park vs Fairmont, but Readville is Zone 2 in both lines.
whittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 04:06 PM   #4845
Arlington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Medford, MA
Posts: 3,125
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

I think the real question is as simple as: "What were ridership numbers in the two weeks that FOLLOWED the free trial? Did free trials produce a lasting change in behavior?"

All we know is that the free trial is some kind of upper bound on ridership ("how many would ride transit if it were free?"...though I suppose if we paid people to ride it could go higher ;-)

So I would have liked the free trial to have continued until free ridership leveled off (growing by, say <5%/wk) ...a sign that everyone who might be induced/educated had, in fact, tried it.

For now all we know is that by week 2 we'd changed behavior & educated twice as many people as week 1 did...how much further could it have pressed?
__________________
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 04:45 PM   #4846
bakgwailo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 442
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by whittle View Post
That is true of Hyde Park vs Fairmont, but Readville is Zone 2 in both lines.
Zone 2 is $217. 75/month, so pretty close to Zone 1, but still, my point is that they would have already been going to Fairmont to save well over $100 a month anyways - Fairmont being Zone 1a isn't that new of a thing anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
I think the real question is as simple as: "What were ridership numbers in the two weeks that FOLLOWED the free trial? Did free trials produce a lasting change in behavior?"

All we know is that the free trial is some kind of upper bound on ridership ("how many would ride transit if it were free?"...though I suppose if we paid people to ride it could go higher ;-)

So I would have liked the free trial to have continued until free ridership leveled off (growing by, say <5%/wk) ...a sign that everyone who might be induced/educated had, in fact, tried it.

For now all we know is that by week 2 we'd changed behavior & educated twice as many people as week 1 did...how much further could it have pressed?
I think one needs to also take into account the lack of being able to normally easily transfer. Right now, without a monthly pass (either ticker or card), you have to basically pay double the subway/bus fair to get to South Station and then transfer to the Red Line/Silver Line/etc, whereas the existing bus service, while slower, gives you that free transfer, so $2.25 vs $4.50 one way - on the round trip you save almost 5 bucks not taking the Fairmont Line. Also, the ticketing (without a monthly) is also annoying on the CR, since a normal Charlie Card cannot be used, and one needs to either purchase on train, via the app, etc.

My question is, how much of an impact was not not so much in making it free, but, in making it that much easier to use, as now it was the same price as the bus (with transfers), and, it took away the less than ideal payment options to use the service.
bakgwailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 04:59 PM   #4847
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Camberville
Posts: 1,343
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

I think the Fairmount Line not being equipped with handheld Charlie Card readers is the T's single greatest (current) failing.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:16 PM   #4848
jklo
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 84
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBuc View Post
I think the Fairmount Line not being equipped with handheld Charlie Card readers is the T's single greatest (current) failing.
As mentioned, the CC isn't accepted. You need a 1A pass.
jklo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:40 PM   #4849
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Camberville
Posts: 1,343
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jklo View Post
As mentioned, the CC isn't accepted. You need a 1A pass.
Yeah, I know. But there's no good reason why Charlie isn't accepted on the Fairmount Line. The cost to add it as a valid fare option would be close to zero, and the benefit to riders would be significant.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 06:45 PM   #4850
jklo
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 84
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBuc View Post
Yeah, I know. But there's no good reason why Charlie isn't accepted on the Fairmount Line. The cost to add it as a valid fare option would be close to zero, and the benefit to riders would be significant.
I'm assuming it's for accounting reasons. Having a 1A pass means you intend to actually use the CR.
jklo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2017, 10:58 PM   #4851
millerm277
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 114
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Since I haven't seen it posted on this site:

https://commonwealthmagazine.org/tra...-27m-overhaul/

"THE MBTA’S FISCAL AND MANAGEMENT Control Board voted on Monday to spend $26.9 million overhauling 10 commuter rail locomotives that are already about 30 years old."

More details from NETransit:

"On 06/19/17, the MBTA FMCB voted on a $26.8 million contract with Motive Power Industries to overhaul 10 F40PH-2C and F40PHM-2C locomotives. Contract includes options to overhaul up to 26 additional units. The five units stored in Kingston MA will be the first shipped to Boise. First completed unit is due back in March 2018."

If the options get exercised, that's the full fleet of them.
millerm277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2017, 10:26 AM   #4852
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Camberville
Posts: 1,343
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jklo View Post
I'm assuming it's for accounting reasons. Having a 1A pass means you intend to actually use the CR.
That doesn't qualify as a good reason.

I haven't taken the CR since probably January but I still buy a 1A every month. They're the same price and they both cover subway and bus, but the 1A gives me the option of taking the CR to Porter or Yawkey (or other stations) whenever it may be more convenient. Since 1A is fully accepted on Charlie but Charlie is not accepted on 1A, and they're the same price, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me to buy Charlie. The only downside is that I get a new physical card every month instead of just a new pass on my existing card.

So in practice, for people who plan for these things, 1A and Charlie are 100% fully interchangeable. But for people who don't buy monthly passes with this in mind, they're not. This distinction between 1A and Charlie only works in one direction. This is stupid, and we should accommodate people who don't buy monthly 1As. For them, paying CR fares (even on the Fairmount Line) is needlessly inconvenient and expensive.

In the ideal world, every CR train would be equipped with Charlie readers for people travelling within 1A who don't have 1A passes. But there's a cost to equipping every train with Charlie readers, both in the price of the readers themselves and the hassle of having conductors carry them around for the small percentage of people making intra-1A trips without passes. So I get why that isn't worth it. But Fairmount is a much smaller set of trains and conductors to equip, and every trip is intra-1A. The line doesn't reach any other zones!

We have one fare system designed for intra-city trips across lines and busses, and another fare system designed for inter-city trips across zones. But then for some reason, on one of our intra-city lines, we use the system designed for inter-city trips and we don't accept the intra-city system. That makes absolutely no sense! And it could all be fixed with little more than a policy change on paper and the use of existing technology. This wouldn't require some massive undertaking.

Last edited by JumboBuc; 06-21-2017 at 10:49 AM.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 10:03 AM   #4853
BKNA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 156
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

you can also take the Charlestown ferry with the 1A.
BKNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 10:53 AM   #4854
jklo
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 84
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
I haven't taken the CR since probably January but I still buy a 1A every month. They're the same price and they both cover subway and bus, but the 1A gives me the option of taking the CR to Porter or Yawkey (or other stations) whenever it may be more convenient. Since 1A is fully accepted on Charlie but Charlie is not accepted on 1A, and they're the same price, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me to buy Charlie. The only downside is that I get a new physical card every month instead of just a new pass on my existing card.
Yeah but I imagine you are in the minority. If you buy a 1A pass you are going to use the CR as a primary commuting option.

By "accounting reasons" I mean 1A vs CC probably affects CR funding and of course how much Keolis gets paid. Or maybe there's FRA regulations they have to do it this way and it's a fringe benefit that you get subway and bus and ferry for 'free'.
jklo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 11:01 AM   #4855
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Camberville
Posts: 1,343
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jklo View Post
Yeah but I imagine you are in the minority. If you buy a 1A pass you are going to use the CR as a primary commuting option.

By "accounting reasons" I mean 1A vs CC probably affects CR funding and of course how much Keolis gets paid. Or maybe there's FRA regulations they have to do it this way and it's a fringe benefit that you get subway and bus and ferry for 'free'.
I'm for sure in the minority wrt how little I take CR, but 1A is targeted at people who live at Porter / Yawkey / JFK UMass / Ruggles / Forest Hills etc, as well as Fairmount. These are not "commuters" in the traditional sense; they're urban residents who likely use multiple modes of MBTA transportation. I used to take CR every day from Porter to NS for work at an old job, but even then I still used my 1A on bus and subway multiple days a week. I suspect that pattern of use is pretty typical for 1A holders.

I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that fare collection is not connected to Keolis's compensation. This has been brought up as a point of contention in that Keolis has no incentive to encourage CR conductors collect tolls. But even if it were tied, that's still not a reason good enough to prevent Charlie from being accepted on Fairmount.

I suspect the real reason is that nobody in power at the T cares enough about Fairmount to even give it a thought.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #4856
FK4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,698
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKNA View Post
you can also take the Charlestown ferry with the 1A.
Best four bucks you can spend on a nice day.
FK4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 08:48 AM   #4857
odurandina
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,553
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

MBTA proposes to slash retirement benefits......

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/...5kL/story.html
odurandina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 09:37 AM   #4858
chmeeee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Metro West
Posts: 187
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

I don't understand why they don't just start putting future employees into the state fund following the same rules as all other state and municipal workers. It's still very generous while being far more fiscally responsible than what they do now.
chmeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 10:04 AM   #4859
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Camberville
Posts: 1,343
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chmeeee View Post
I don't understand why they don't just start putting future employees into the state fund following the same rules as all other state and municipal workers. It's still very generous while being far more fiscally responsible than what they do now.
If future employees are moved to a different fund then there will be nobody paying into the current system. This would set the T up on a better financial footing decades in the future, but until we get there we'd have to come up with billions to cover the benefits of all the current employees for their lifetimes.

Quote:
“He’s taking Social Security away. Let’s call a spade a spade,” O’Brien said. “I don’t know why he preys on the most vulnerable people, which is senior citizens.”
That is some of the worst kind of rhetoric. The T's pension fund does not affect senior citizens in the general sense, it only affects senior citizens who have T pensions. And senior citizens who have T pensions are far from "the most vulnerable people".
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2017, 05:30 AM   #4860
Wash
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Arlington
Posts: 14
Re: General MBTA Discussion Thread

Currently on board a Scottrail DMU. Holy Jesus can this thing go. I can see what all the fuss is about now.
Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A discussion regarding Chinatown commuter guy Boston Architecture & Urbanism 31 05-07-2016 06:30 AM
MBTA thread(s) cleanup Arlington Board Issues and Announcements 2 03-12-2015 06:46 PM
General RER-type service thread BostonUrbEx Transit and Infrastructure 26 11-22-2014 02:16 PM
General Real Estate/Rental Discussion BostonUrbEx Boston Architecture & Urbanism 5 04-16-2012 02:46 PM
aB Awards General Discussion statler 2008 Awards Nominations & Discussion 10 02-18-2009 06:40 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.