![]() |
|
Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro. |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
![]() |
#21 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,615
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 369
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
Like this. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,416
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Excessively costly. Maybe some form of detection that can signal to coming trains. But... Dare I say... The clumsy and the suicidal will just take their tragedy elsewhere.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Medford, MA
Posts: 3,501
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
1) Keeping paper/metal trash off the tracks (more reliable switches & electrical) 2) Being able to fully or partly air-condition stations (or at least keep exhaust heat from trains out) 3) Better loading & unloading (you know where to wait, and there are no accidental steps-into-gap-between-cars) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,615
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
If you dig back in the Driven By Customer Service thread, there's probably pages worth of Platform Screen Door discussion. We discuss it about once a year on here. I think there might actually have been a thread made at one point...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Shore
Posts: 4,265
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
No mention of this yet, but the MBTA's requirements say the new trains must be designed and proven for 70 MPH and will be expected to run 63 MPH in operation. This is huge since current limits are 50 MPH for Red Line and 40 MPH for Orange Line.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
Set-up one of the mm band radars used on some of the high-end luxury sedans for anti-collision to run along the platform length. This kind of radar beam is quite narrow over the length of a platform. Locate the beam such that a person falling or being pushed would break the beam on the way down -- but hard for someone messing around on the platform to intentionally trigger the alarm Provide "an Instant Replay" --- Locate a camera to monitor the same field. Then provide auto detection with auto alarm in the Control Center where the instant replay is constantly storing the last 1 minute of video, The controller will be responsible for manually triggering the alarm [after mandatory review] -- alarm sent to the Train or Trains approaching the platform -- one station away and the Station itself and 911 If the falling person triggers the auto detection and the nearest train is close -- auto alarm, in the Cab and Station as well at at the Control Center This can be done for a insignificant cost compared to installing doors on varied platform styles of varying ages and designs |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 3,585
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Keep in mind that they already do a lot of monitoring. If you haven't visited the control center at High Street, you ought to go for a tour. It's free.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
My point is that you don't want someone to be devoted to monitoring dozens of platforms --- really boring duty --- high probability of error by ommision Nor do you want to depend on visual analytics for something like a person falling into the "Pit" The Radar triggers a highlighted video view [highlights courtesy of the video analytics] The video can be reviewed in a few seconds by the Control Operator who then makes the decision as to how to most appropriately to respond depending on the circumstances [using a prioritized set of guidelines] Unless the train is imminent to the station [depends on the particular Station]: spacing of local stations; grade approaching; speed of the tranin; indoor, outdoor; time of day; track conditions; etc -- all part of the CONOPS -- in which case the full auto mode takes over and notifies the Cab and the Station and also 911 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 104
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
seriously? that's huge for the braintree branch especially
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 3,585
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
That's what they do. I think they are using some sort of computer vision algorithm instead of radar.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 541
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Don't get too excited. The existing 1969 built #1 Red Line cars were speced and built to be capable of 70 MPH operation too. So far, they have been waiting 44 years to put that capability to use. It is good that they are at least going to continue to maintain the possibility of higher speed operations someday.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Union Sq, Somerville
Posts: 3,440
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
definitely could only be fully utilized on Braintree. Can't get up to those speeds many other places on the Red Line.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Shore
Posts: 4,265
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Definitely most beneficial there, but can be useful elsewhere. Even on the Orange Line between Malden and Wellington, as well.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 143
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
What's the current max speed on the blue?
Edit: Read that it was 65 mph on the new cars, but what's it like in operation? Last edited by cbrett; 10-28-2013 at 12:52 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Shore
Posts: 4,265
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
40, I think. Electronically limited. But leaving Maverick, going inbound, gravity does it's magic and it's maybe 45.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,615
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,670
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
Downtown it's the mangled signal installation that forces the choke point between Central and SS. The Central-Kendall stretch used to do 55-60 MPH on the old pre-1988 signal system. It's permanently capped at 49 MPH today, and then you have the much slower and dead stop-prone slog at anything resembling peak load because the signal blocks were spaced too far apart for the density. It makes little difference if you kick on the afterburners today, because unless it's in the way off-peak all that means is the train catches up too quickly to one of the crippled signal blocks occupied by a slow downtown train and has to pause for a schedule adjustment. If that happens for 1/3 of the service day already, all raw speed does is ensure it happens 40-50% of the service day and makes OTP even worse. Keeping the design speed at 70 is something they could tap with CBTC signaling. That solves for the downtown logjam with at minimum tighter-packed blocks restoring capacity to what it used to be, and at best full moving blocks where live train spacing sets the headways instead of rigid blocks. That could bring the Central-Kendall stretch back up to what it used to be without the trains needing to artificially hold back. These vehicles are designed to last 25 years not including rebuilds, so they will see service on some permutation of a next-gen signal system if for no other reason than the current system will hit end-of-life and be up for necessary replacement while these vehicles are running. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 3,585
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Something I noticed in an article about MTA's Sandy recovery in the NY Times is that the L train uses CBTC and therefore wasn't affected as badly by damaged signalling equipment. Putting aside the topic of storm damage, the L could be a model for the Red Line, perhaps?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,670
|
Re: New Red and Orange Line Cars
Quote:
This is why the MTA, which uses nothing but those Blue Line-style trip arms and wayside signals on the NYC Subway, is setting aside billions and billions to start replacing everything with CBTC on an enormous scale of neverending construction over the next 20+ years because so much of their hardware is at or beyond end-of-life and going solid-state saves so much down the line. Their trials with it on the little shuttle lines proved successful enough that they're ready to start pushing it out to the mainlines, have all new cars on-order equipped, and retrofit all existing cars that aren't slated for soonish retirement. It is most definitely what the T is going to employ throughout the heavy rail system. Increased headways are only one of the advantages, and it's entirely up to them whether they want to push that envelope or stay closer to status quo. But enough of Blue/Orange/Red is at end of infrastructure life that the maint simplifying and better resiliency is almost as big a driver. We need service that's on-time, doesn't break down, and isn't decaying from wretched state-of-repair more than we need headways right this second. The new signal tech serves that need and is less a PITA to keep working once it's up and working. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Tags |
colors, livery, mbta, survey, trains |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Orange Line Thread | Toonie29 | Transit and Infrastructure | 291 | 09-22-2014 02:45 PM |
New Assembly Square Orange Line Stop | Tim Jackson | Transit and Infrastructure | 49 | 11-15-2011 06:53 PM |
Orange Line's Aging Fleet | KentXie | Transit and Infrastructure | 3 | 02-05-2009 08:36 PM |
New Blue line cars. | palindrome | Transit and Infrastructure | 59 | 06-06-2008 06:13 PM |
Orange Line Elevated Line | bosdevelopment | Transit and Infrastructure | 0 | 05-01-2007 11:01 AM |