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Old 12-31-2016, 04:44 PM   #541
odurandina
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

i'm feeling our GE pride. Don't let your emotions get the best of you. Don't even think of purchasing a GE washing machine unless you don't mind tossing your hard earned cash down the drain. So sad, for a company that builds so much insane shit.

these reviews are spot on.... https://www.consumeraffairs.com/home...g_machines.htm
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:31 PM   #542
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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A machine shop.
+1000

Actually, contrary to whigh's comments, my experience is most machine shops have more equipment than most makerspaces. For some reason, his comment centers on some idea machine shops don't have computers?!? I mean, machine shops moved to CNC machines a while ago.

But the main difference between a makerspace and a machine shop is who has access to the equipment and who operates the equipment and the amount of assistance you receive.

In a makerspace, you traditionally take a class to get certified to use a machine and then you operate it yourself. You get your friends to look at your designs and point out any flaws. You decide yourself what machines will be used to manufacture, what materials, etc.

In a machine shop, there usually is a machinist who operates the machines. The machinist also consults with you on the design, material choices, and designing the strategy for manufacturing.

Basically, most existing makerspaces are machine shops with less equipment and without the expert machinists. This may have to do with them traditionally being non-profit and often geared towards artists and tinkerers, while most machine shops are supporting a larger organization.

In the warehousy part of Somerville, there's Artisan's Asylum, Cambridge Hackerspace, and Parts and Crafts. The latter two call themselves "makerspaces" while Artisan's Asylum calls their members makers.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:31 PM   #543
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Yeah, the portsmouth makerspace only has a couple of small manual lathes, a basic manual vertical mill, and a 3D printer. The real difference from a machinists perspective is a makerspace is a place where you can do "home projects" and the machine shop is where one works for paying customers. IE: if you want to make parts for your own car, your employer might frown upon you doing it on their equipment, on their time.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:27 AM   #544
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwash59 View Post
+1000

Actually, contrary to whigh's comments, my experience is most machine shops have more equipment than most makerspaces. For some reason, his comment centers on some idea machine shops don't have computers?!? I mean, machine shops moved to CNC machines a while ago.

But the main difference between a makerspace and a machine shop is who has access to the equipment and who operates the equipment and the amount of assistance you receive.

In a makerspace, you traditionally take a class to get certified to use a machine and then you operate it yourself. You get your friends to look at your designs and point out any flaws. You decide yourself what machines will be used to manufacture, what materials, etc.

In a machine shop, there usually is a machinist who operates the machines. The machinist also consults with you on the design, material choices, and designing the strategy for manufacturing.

Basically, most existing makerspaces are machine shops with less equipment and without the expert machinists. This may have to do with them traditionally being non-profit and often geared towards artists and tinkerers, while most machine shops are supporting a larger organization.

In the warehousy part of Somerville, there's Artisan's Asylum, Cambridge Hackerspace, and Parts and Crafts. The latter two call themselves "makerspaces" while Artisan's Asylum calls their members makers.
Machine shops and makerspaces are really about two different (complementary and increasingly competitive) manufacturing methods.

Machine Shops are all about subtractive manufacturing. Tools that remove material to create a part. (milling machines, lathes, etc.)

Makerspaces are all about additive manufacturing. Tools that add material together to form a part. (3D printers) Additive manufacturing is often competing with more conventional heavily tooled manufacturing methods like injection molding and casting.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:56 AM   #545
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Machine shops and makerspaces are really about two different (complementary and increasingly competitive) manufacturing methods.

Machine Shops are all about subtractive manufacturing. Tools that remove material to create a part. (milling machines, lathes, etc.)

Makerspaces are all about additive manufacturing. Tools that add material together to form a part. (3D printers) Additive manufacturing is often competing with more conventional heavily tooled manufacturing methods like injection molding and casting.
I agree that "makerspaces" are more likely to feature additive manufacturing than traditional machine shops, but I disagree that the distinction is drawn like this. My experiences are that makerspaces have a broad range of tools and machines, including 3D printers, as well as CNC milling machines, traditional milling machines, lathes, band saws, etc...makerspaces have a little bit of everything. And as others on this forum have pointed out, usually the makerspace revolves around taking a short training course and then getting access to the facility to do the work yourself, rather than having a professional machinist do it for you.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "makerspace" for reasons that would derail this thread even more, so I won't go into them...but as much as I'm not a fan of the name, I agree it means something fairly distinct as we're discussing.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:46 AM   #546
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

OK, but the distinction between professionally operated equipment and training plus user operated equipment exists in both designations.

There are professional machine shops (most) but there are also training machine shops for hobbyists (like the MIT Hobby Shop).

There are training plus user operated makerspaces (most) but there is also a developing group of professionally operated makerspaces for entrepreneurs/inventors who want real production quality parts. And most makerspaces include machine shops because most 3D printed parts require post processing or finishing by subtractive means.

Lots of overlap in the definitions. And then there are FabLabs, TechShops, etc... The list goes on.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:52 AM   #547
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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OK, but the distinction between professionally operated equipment and training plus user operated equipment exists in both designations.

There are professional machine shops (most) but there are also training machine shops for hobbyists (like the MIT Hobby Shop).

There are training plus user operated makerspaces (most) but there is also a developing group of professionally operated makerspaces for entrepreneurs/inventors who want real production quality parts. And most makerspaces include machine shops because most 3D printed parts require post processing or finishing by subtractive means.

Lots of overlap in the definitions. And then there are FabLabs, TechShops, etc... The list goes on.
I don't mean to belabor this because I agree with much of what you're saying, but, as in all new trendy buzzword campaigns, I think we're still in the midst of the clarifying-what-it-means phase...

Here's MIT's take on it, which, interestingly, lists a machine shop as one of three types of makerspaces:

https://project-manus.mit.edu/mits-makerspaces

I work on campus, so I've seen these "project manus" posters all over the place...it seems to me as a re-branding campaign regarding a lot of spaces that have been there for decades (plus some new spaces).
In short, If you exclude the class project spaces, then it becomes clear that the differentiating element is the community access aspect...

I actually agree with the 3-tiered distinction they denote, and, as we'd discuss on this forum above, the guiding presence of skilled/professional machinists seems to be what they are using to distinguish "machine shops" from the others.

They also state:
"Many spaces are hybrids, primarily of one type but have elements of another type. In all of our campus makerspaces, the students do the work. We don't consider 'work for hire' areas to be makerspaces because they don't facilitate personal making... they are job shops."

This last definition implies that "personal making" vs. "for-hire services" is what differentiates a makerspace from a non-makerspace.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:35 PM   #548
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Hi, first-time commenter long-time visitor but what the fuck are you guys talking about anyway.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:40 PM   #549
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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Hi, first-time commenter long-time visitor but what the fuck are you guys talking about anyway.
GE's proposal states that it includes an "external makerspace" on the ground level (see here). We are debating the intended meaning of makerspace.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:04 PM   #550
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

What's to debate. Its an abstract buzzword that any space similar to those you've mentioned can fit. Its not a real thing, so there's no real definition.

It will be called something else in 5 years and people will do what you are doing now about the same abstract idea with a new exciting name to put in articles or on initial plans.
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Old 01-02-2017, 07:49 AM   #551
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

^ the only thing to debate is what GE is putting in that space.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:04 AM   #552
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Truth.
My guess, they don't know. That's why they used a buzzword to fill un-programmed space.

We'll know when it gets filled. Probably with garbage at first, and then a real use when they figure out what they need on site.
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:31 AM   #553
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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Originally Posted by SeamusMcFly View Post
Truth.
My guess, they don't know. That's why they used a buzzword to fill un-programmed space.

We'll know when it gets filled. Probably with garbage at first, and then a real use when they figure out what they need on site.
It is a bit like the Menino-era "innovation spaces" elsewhere in the Seaport area. Sounds good in press releases.
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:38 AM   #554
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

I'm sure this is discussed somewhere but I don't feel like scrolling back through all the pages so I'll ask again. When is this supposed to start construction? I can't think GE would want to wait through the typical 5 year Boston approval process, plus multiple more years to get this built.
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:49 AM   #555
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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I'm sure this is discussed somewhere but I don't feel like scrolling back through all the pages so I'll ask again. When is this supposed to start construction? I can't think GE would want to wait through the typical 5 year Boston approval process, plus multiple more years to get this built.
Suffolk Construction was chosen not too long ago to build the new building portion; all that we know so far is that they're finalizing designs with Gensler, and they hope to open the complex in 2018, so they should definitely be starting up soon.
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Old 01-03-2017, 01:34 PM   #556
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Maker spaces can also be called workshops. Think about wood shop in high school. These days maker-spaces have lots of different tools for making that include woodworking, and metalworking tools, but also things like 3d printers, laser cutters, 5 axis routers and many other things. If you want to see one that is open to the public go to Danger Awesome in Central Square Cambridge. Making this space public is likely a part of their public amenity package.

Who will use it you say? Well, people who want to make stuff but don't want to pay for $10,000 pieces of equipment. Don't expect it to be free though. Think of it is a Kinko's for the mid 21st century.

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Old 01-03-2017, 03:31 PM   #557
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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If you want to see one that is open to the public go to Danger Awesome in Central Square Cambridge.
Is that even open any more? Haven't gone by, but I've been told by multiple people that it shut down. Yelp seems to agree that it is closed.
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:41 AM   #558
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

Ok ...then don't go there.

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Old 01-04-2017, 11:47 AM   #559
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

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Originally Posted by stefalarchitect View Post
Suffolk Construction was chosen not too long ago to build the new building portion; all that we know so far is that they're finalizing designs with Gensler, and they hope to open the complex in 2018, so they should definitely be starting up soon.
Stefalarchitect -- I believe that the work on stabilizing and preparing in the old Brick and beams has either started of is just about to start. The company hopes to start occupying the Brick and Beam portion of the project in early 2018.

The new building has gotten Boston BDPA approval it still needs MEPA approval from the Commonwealth [chapt 91 stuff] and then the individual permits from the various permit issuers for the detail stuff

I would expect that to achieve GE's recently promulgated goal of late 2018 occupancy with about 18 months in construction then the main structure should break ground this spring
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:07 PM   #560
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Re: General Electric HQ | 244-284 A Street | Fort Point

NECCO buildings fenced off and work has begun.





BBJ article confirms activity. http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/ne...at-boston.html
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