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Old 04-12-2019, 08:24 AM   #41
Lrfox
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Idk I think its cool because its the first example in the US if Im not mistaken? This company builds graduate degree housing/dorms co-living spaces...etc and here they will build their very first stateside development for grad students. So its something new and will take more students out of the local housing market. Thats a win for me. Plus it looks fine and adds plenty more retail. This spot on boylston is going to be redeveloped no matter what. So Id rather it be something important and the first of its kind than your run of the mill lux condos any day..

This is important because its a test run of their model and if successful we could see a massive new wave of these sprout up around our dense education economy, taking a few hundred/thousand grad students out of the housing market. I want to see this succeed and then be replicated all over the metro area. I wanna see a whole lot more dorms built as well... more student housing by default = more available apartments for non students. Whether undergrad or grad. I hope its successful for them.
Then do it better. unlike some of the other spots on Boylston (gas stations, tire shops, etc.), this one has decent urban bones and good tenants (Machine, Baseball Tavern).
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:29 AM   #42
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

I'm all for testing out the idea in Boston, but this particular proposal stinks like an outhouse.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:07 AM   #43
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

Is it ok that I like the proposal? Feels like there is a lot of animosity here. Aside from losing Machine/Ramrod (which I assume is still popular and could probably relocate and its patrons wold follow), this is a dumpy block with a 2 story building on it.

Baseball tavern? This spot has changed hands many times and is interchangeable with the many other sports bars in the area. Pining over a mattress store? Sad for losing Domino's? C'mon lads. Although, I do wish I was that franchisee, probably buying a condo in 1 Dalton with all that pizza money.

Although the retail is a bit sterile, the area needs housing for students. I'm in.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:30 AM   #44
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

Does anyone know someone at Machine and if they would even consider moving? This whole thing is gross (although I dont hate the exterior of the building. Theres no other 18+ queer nightlife space in the city.



"The Boylston Black Box will be comprised of approx. 6,000 square feet of space. The bona fide arts and cultural performance venue will consist of a main entrance fronting on Boylston Street and a feature staircase leading to ‘double-height’ space. In addition to the 120-seat theater, the Boylston Black Box will also include ‘flex’ space which will be utilized for various purposes (i.e. suitable for small-group meetings, events and seminars, or alternatively, able to accommodate food & beverage catering to accompany performances)."

They describe all of the venues prior to this and they are all nightclubs, and say they want to embrace that LGBTQ identity, yet wtf is this??
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:34 AM   #45
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

I wonder if we'll see any of the current retail tenants here move over to the Fenway Center project. That first phase has a ton of retail space in a somewhat awkward location; it could work well for the delivery-focused Domino's and mattress store, for example. Plus the timelines should line up.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #46
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Does anyone know someone at Machine and if they would even consider moving? This whole thing is gross (although I dont hate the exterior of the building. Theres no other 18+ queer nightlife space in the city.



"The Boylston Black Box will be comprised of approx. 6,000 square feet of space. The bona fide arts and cultural performance venue will consist of a main entrance fronting on Boylston Street and a feature staircase leading to ‘double-height’ space. In addition to the 120-seat theater, the Boylston Black Box will also include ‘flex’ space which will be utilized for various purposes (i.e. suitable for small-group meetings, events and seminars, or alternatively, able to accommodate food & beverage catering to accompany performances)."

They describe all of the venues prior to this and they are all nightclubs, and say they want to embrace that LGBTQ identity, yet wtf is this??
Not being queer myself, isn't the point of a nightclub like this that it's countercultural and somewhat off-the-beaten-path? I'm not sure that Fenway's that kind of neighborhood at this point...
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:52 AM   #47
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Not being queer myself, isn't the point of a nightclub like this that it's countercultural and somewhat off-the-beaten-path? I'm not sure that Fenway's that kind of neighborhood at this point...
Being queer doesn't have to be 'countercultural', and that is not the goal of every queer bar. And if you've been to Machine recently then thats definitely not the vibe theyre going for... Maybe some of the fetish parties at Jacques or other bars are what you're thinking of. This is more a bar for young queer people, QPOC, trans kids, drag shows etc. Its a safe neighborhood, with a massive LGBT health center as its neighbor so this seems like a great spot for big gay lol, not counterculture.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:27 AM   #48
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Originally Posted by Czervik.Construction View Post
Is it ok that I like the proposal? Feels like there is a lot of animosity here. Aside from losing Machine/Ramrod (which I assume is still popular and could probably relocate and its patrons wold follow), this is a dumpy block with a 2 story building on it.

Baseball tavern? This spot has changed hands many times and is interchangeable with the many other sports bars in the area. Pining over a mattress store? Sad for losing Domino's? C'mon lads. Although, I do wish I was that franchisee, probably buying a condo in 1 Dalton with all that pizza money.

Although the retail is a bit sterile, the area needs housing for students. I'm in.
I like it too and agree with your points for the most part. The reality of life is that things change and people adapt. Thats why for the most part I dont think gentrification is evil as the neighborhoods were nice at one point, then people moved out and some became neglected, and now some are being brought back. Neighborhoods change a lot over time, its crazy to want to keep them the same forever. When people move out of places, other move in. Neighborhoods adapt to the times. The businesses that are in this current building were not always there and they can find a new spot if they dont move into the new building. Thats just how it works. If they want to stay in the same place then they can. This is going to be much better than the current building imo. One thing thats definitely true is we need much more places for the middle class business owners and renters. There are lots of proposals, but people keep messing it up even though its to their own benefit. Things have a way of working out over time though.

Last edited by stick n move; 04-12-2019 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #49
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Commercial retail rents are too damn high. I've been helping a friend of mine look for a space to grow his NH business to a Boston location, and the asking prices for retail and restaurants are disgusting. Like $20k+/month for a 100-seat restaurant, never mind the $500k to get an in-short-supply liquor permit.

It would be great if the city's inclusionary development policy featured provisions for large development projects with 10,000+ sq. ft. of retail space to set aside x% at a rate affordable to local small business owners.
Very true. We are seeing local businesses get gobbled up at an unprecedented pace. We are seeing local businesses get gobbled up at an unprecedented pace. I know it may be unrealistic to create new dive bars and bodegas, but the loss of small businesses that appeal to average people (not just a young twentysomethings with money to burn) is a serious problem in the city.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #50
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

i suppose it's not worth the expense and hassle to preserve the current facade, but i actually really like what's there. without getting into the whole facedectomy debate again, i do wish they could keep the ground floor/retail -- at least in appearance -- the way it is now, build whatever they like on top of it.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:41 AM   #51
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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i suppose it's not worth the expense and hassle to preserve the current facade, but i actually really like what's there. without getting into the whole facedectomy debate again, i do wish they could keep the ground floor/retail -- at least in appearance -- the way it is now, build whatever they like on top of it.
Yea I agree that would be nice. Or if its too expensive or too much of a hassle even just do a hub on causeway type of deal. That but instead of the “inspired by” type of design they have over there, do a “replica” ground floor where they recreate the ground floor of the old building, but included as the ground floor of the new building. That could turn out pretty good and keep the old vibe of this part of the street, but updated to fall in line with 21st century goals of the neighborhood.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:54 AM   #52
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Originally Posted by Czervik.Construction View Post
Is it ok that I like the proposal? Feels like there is a lot of animosity here. Aside from losing Machine/Ramrod (which I assume is still popular and could probably relocate and its patrons wold follow), this is a dumpy block with a 2 story building on it.

Baseball tavern? This spot has changed hands many times and is interchangeable with the many other sports bars in the area. Pining over a mattress store? Sad for losing Domino's? C'mon lads. Although, I do wish I was that franchisee, probably buying a condo in 1 Dalton with all that pizza money.

Although the retail is a bit sterile, the area needs housing for students. I'm in.
Neither in the "we must save it!" category, but I actually like both buildings and I'd prefer either facade to a lot of what's being built nowadays. I'd certainly prefer anything new here incorporating the facade. I agree that the dorm here wouldn't be the end of the world, but you're losing character on two fronts (the architecture and two of the tenants). It's understandable why people aren't thrilled.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:01 PM   #53
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Yes, it is... well, it's somewhat better. I certainly am overall glad with what's been built. My gripe here is that this latest project seeks to replace the one block that wasn't either parking lots or fast food chains, so the loss is actually real. Somehow, new buildings just can't get good, eclectic retail or restaurants in this city.
Probably worth a whole thread just for this topic, but essentially new developments include a revenue model that means rents too high for creative, eclectic store front businesses. I share your despair -- every time I walk through Kenmore I am really disappointed by what it has become.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:09 PM   #54
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Probably worth a whole thread just for this topic, but essentially new developments include a revenue model that means rents too high for creative, eclectic store front businesses. I share your despair -- every time I walk through Kenmore I am really disappointed by what it has become.
Yet the newest thing in Kenmore is the Hotel Commonwealth.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:36 PM   #55
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

Yep, and that completely wiped out an entire block of interesting independent mom and pop businesses. The same thing is about to happen to the other side of the square, too. As others have noted, much of Boylston St. was pretty lifeless 15-20 years ago, so its transformation has generally been a very positive thing. I don't think you can make the same argument about Kenmore Square, just because the major change to the built environment happened earlier.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:46 PM   #56
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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No wonder we all moved to the burbs! The roof deck at Quest in the summer was excellent. (Same roof deck as Baseball Tavern recently.)
I spent many an evening up there as a somewhat socially awkward spaceshot of a twenty something with my motley little gang of skater punks, backbench club kids, and at least one drag queen. We must've ruined several thousand dollars of MTV's film whenever the Real World would film its gang of poseurs there by making odd faces and strange gestures whenever we were in view of the cameras, usually rendering the shot useless. We did everything passively we could to make production of their stupid little show difficult. I don't know (or really care) if it made a real difference, but we felt we had to protect our turf from such nonsense (as in the city itself, not the club). It felt good.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:07 PM   #57
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

I feel Boston being a city big on it's history should do sidewalk plaques like LA with it's stars but at properties telling or at least acknowledging what was once before there. Something simple to show our city's history. With all this new construction I hate to lose where we came from
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:44 PM   #58
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

Cool idea.

Last edited by stick n move; 04-13-2019 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:29 PM   #59
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

Uh yeah
London does blue plaques everywhere, on the walls of buildings

And sometimes other plaques too

Doesn’t need to be some oversized lectern.. problem is the private property rights preclude said plaques in the good old us of a ... but we should do them
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:09 PM   #60
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Re: Scape Student Housing | 1252-1268 Boylston Street | Fenway

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Being queer doesn't have to be 'countercultural', and that is not the goal of every queer bar. And if you've been to Machine recently then thats definitely not the vibe theyre going for... Maybe some of the fetish parties at Jacques or other bars are what you're thinking of. This is more a bar for young queer people, QPOC, trans kids, drag shows etc. Its a safe neighborhood, with a massive LGBT health center as its neighbor so this seems like a great spot for big gay lol, not counterculture.
This is a good post, but you actually left out the most important part about gay clubs. It's not just about the neighborhood being safe. The club itself is a safe haven for LGBTQ+ people to be or discover who they are.

If anyone is interested about what gay clubs mean to us members of the community, read the quotes from the patrons of Pulse that fateful night.

Machine closing down is a big deal. Boston is a highly liberal, allegedly accepting city, yet gay life in Boston is practically nonexistent. There is no gay village. There are hardly any gay clubs (and now one fewer). There are hardly any gay bars. Boston has never been able to shake its puritanical roots. My friends from Toronto, Chicago, NYC, Montreal are all shocked how pathetic Boston's gay scene is, despite our billing as all accepting and "progressive."
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