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Old 06-18-2019, 07:05 AM   #221
Equilibria
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...nJM/story.html

Long article in the Globe by Tim Logan.
These articles always cite that there's no school and no fire station... does the City actually want or need these facilities at that location? BPS certainly doesn't - it's trying to unload buildings.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:12 AM   #222
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...nJM/story.html

Long article in the Globe by Tim Logan.
Beton, I know you've been advocating for more affordable housing for this development. What do you think about this quote from HYM?

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O’Brien said HYM has gone as far as it can on affordability. The average apartment at Suffolk Downs would cost about $500,000 to build, he estimated. Given the location at the far tip of East Boston, he said, market-rate units aren’t likely to command high enough rents to subsidize additional affordable housing.
My layperson thoughts are as follows:

1) $500k per apartment seems high, no?
2) I think they're underestimating demand (probably intentional) for apartments in an all new construction neighborhood with two stops on the transit line with arguably the most capacity in the network.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #223
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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Originally Posted by Lrfox View Post
Beton, I know you've been advocating for more affordable housing for this development. What do you think about this quote from HYM?



My layperson thoughts are as follows:

1) $500k per apartment seems high, no?
2) I think they're underestimating demand (probably intentional) for apartments in an all new construction neighborhood with two stops on the transit line with arguably the most capacity in the network.
You didn't ask me, but you reminded me of my favorite absurd tidbit from that article: O'Brien is pleading poverty because he can ONLY ask $2,400 for a one-bedroom apartment, here on the edge of the swamp. He would get SO MUCH MORE in the Seaport.

$2400 per month for a one-bedroom is a highish price in Cambridge. He's complaining he can only ask for Harvard Square rents in Revere.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #224
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

^ I think the $500K figure is utter nonsense.

I like Tom O’Brien a lot. He’s listened to the community, and modified HYM’s plans to accommodate abutters on Waldemar Avenue. But he’s in this to make a profit for his investors. The mayor and city council have roles to play in this drama. We’ll see who shows up and what costumes they’re wearing.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:58 AM   #225
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

As I've clearly stated in other threads, I believe that private profit and public good are not incompatible concepts. It's also true that "profit" and "good" are subject to measurement by many different yardsticks in different hands.

As I continue to read and hear preposterous statements by some of my neighbors bemoaning the defeat of the Suffolk Downs casino proposal, I remain hopeful that something far more valuable to East Boston, Revere, Winthrop, Chelsea, and the rest of the region can be achieved on this site. It will require revolutionary thinking and evolutionary patience.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:03 PM   #226
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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...I believe that private profit and public good are not incompatible concepts.
+1

I might even add that they can sometimes be necessary compliments.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:58 PM   #227
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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Originally Posted by Beton Brut View Post
^ I think the $500K figure is utter nonsense.

I like Tom O’Brien a lot. He’s listened to the community, and modified HYM’s plans to accommodate abutters on Waldemar Avenue. But he’s in this to make a profit for his investors. The mayor and city council have roles to play in this drama. We’ll see who shows up and what costumes they’re wearing.
Thanks. That's what I thought too - Block 8 at Assembly is a $160 Million project with 500 units. Or $320k per unit. I can't imagine why it would cost $180k more per unit at Suffolk Downs.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:04 PM   #228
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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Thanks. That's what I thought too - Block 8 at Assembly is a $160 Million project with 500 units. Or $320k per unit. I can't imagine why it would cost $180k more per unit at Suffolk Downs.
That's just the cost of the apartment building construction though. When you factor in all the other costs of a large-scale development that don't lead directly to revenues (land (which is big), roads, parks, infrastructure, job-training funds, other public amenities, etc.) the per unit cost for the development as a whole has nowhere to go but up.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:45 PM   #229
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

A better measure is cost per square foot, not average cost per unit, as unit sizes vary by project.

Emmanuel spent $140 million to construct 267,500 gsf of building. On land it owned, with very little infrastructure cost. Roughly, >$500 a sq ft.

Holy Cross is spending $30 million on a 52,000 gsf recreation building, the type of open-space building that should mostly be walls and roof. Scaling up to Emmanuel, 5x this HC building would be 260,000 gsf, and a linear projection of the cost would be $150 million.
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Last edited by stellarfun; 06-18-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:01 PM   #230
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Re: Suffolk Downs Redevelopment

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Thanks. That's what I thought too - Block 8 at Assembly is a $160 Million project with 500 units. Or $320k per unit. I can't imagine why it would cost $180k more per unit at Suffolk Downs.
You can't compare union and non-union developments in totally different settings. For comparison, the redevelopment of the Old Colony housing project in South Boston cost approx. $550K per unit, built by Suffolk.
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