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Old 01-07-2019, 10:14 AM   #3301
Lrfox
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Re: Biking in Boston

How do bikers feel about the electric scooters (re: Bird, Lime, etc.) that briefly took Somerville/Cambridge by storm and seem poised for a reintroduction, with the addition of Boston, once legislation allows for it?

Inevitably, these will share the same bike infrastructure, but they're slower than bikes and users will likely lack the experience and familiarity with the infrastructure and rules that most commuter cyclists have. I actually like them, but I see them as being a pain in the ass for cyclists.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:34 PM   #3302
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

Lrfox:

Personally, I favor all forms of individualized, low carbon footprint mobility. That said, I agree with you that there is a risk that a new surge in users might be chaotic as first. I think the solution lies in advocacy and education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
Henry, do you (or does anyone else) know of any plans to take another look at Hyde Park Ave. as far as bike safety is concerned? The reconstruction from a few years ago was a big aesthetic improvement, but itís incredibly unsafe to bike... which is unfortunate, because itís a logical and direct conduit to all of the parks and parkways south of the cityÖ
I haven't heard anything about that, although I know there are people trying to bring attention to the idea of a Washington St. style priority bus/bike lane. Hopefully that will get some traction.

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Originally Posted by jass View Post
Id love to see photos
Unfortunately, I don't have any, but here are some pictures I found on google:

Rotary, nearing completion


Bike path on Arborway, approaching Washington


This is basically accurate. Somewhat hidden on the rendering are off street paths on Washington approaching from the South
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:21 PM   #3303
jass
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Re: Biking in Boston

Interesting that they want PEDS TO YIELD to bikes.




(Im taking a piss at them using standards intended for 65mph on a bikeway)
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:29 PM   #3304
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

No, you are reading the pavement markings wrong. Picture it from the cyclist's viewpoint. It reads "yield to peds," which I take to mean that if I'm on a bike, I am rightly instructed to yield to the slower, more vulnerable individual. That said, I'm already going a bit nuts with the number of people walking or worse, just milling about in the bike lanes, rather than the ample side walks and pedestrian plazas.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:46 PM   #3305
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
No, you are reading the pavement markings wrong. Picture it from the cyclist's viewpoint. It reads "yield to peds," which I take to mean that if I'm on a bike, I am rightly instructed to yield to the slower, more vulnerable individual. That said, I'm already going a bit nuts with the number of people walking or worse, just milling about in the bike lanes, rather than the ample side walks and pedestrian plazas.
Im reading it how normal people (not highway engineers) read: from top to bottom.

PEDS
TO
YIELD
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #3306
FK4
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryAlan View Post
No, you are reading the pavement markings wrong. Picture it from the cyclist's viewpoint. It reads "yield to peds," which I take to mean that if I'm on a bike, I am rightly instructed to yield to the slower, more vulnerable individual. That said, I'm already going a bit nuts with the number of people walking or worse, just milling about in the bike lanes, rather than the ample side walks and pedestrian plazas.
I've beaten this drum for years, but Boston needs to be more aggressive with telling peds to stay out of the bike lanes. Not every single path is 'multi use' and in high traffic areas like here and around Ruggles, they should have painted the pavement red with big signs telling walkers to stay off. It's a problem that has a very easy solution.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:50 PM   #3307
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
Im reading it how normal people (not highway engineers) read: from top to bottom.

PEDS
TO
YIELD
Normal people would note the large white arrow indicating the direction of movement and reading order.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:05 PM   #3308
jass
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Normal people would note the large white arrow indicating the direction of movement and reading order.
You really think the arrow is there to indicate reading order?

Really?


Bad Feel Should You And Insane Is That <-
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:45 PM   #3309
TallIsGood
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
I've beaten this drum for years, but Boston needs to be more aggressive with telling peds to stay out of the bike lanes. Not every single path is 'multi use' and in high traffic areas like here and around Ruggles, they should have painted the pavement red with big signs telling walkers to stay off. It's a problem that has a very easy solution.
So bikes donít need to ride in the bike lane and can take a full traffic lane but pedestrians should stay out of the bike lanes that they are entitled to be in?
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:57 AM   #3310
shmessy
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
You really think the arrow is there to indicate reading order?

Really?


Bad Feel Should You And Insane Is That <-
Remedial Life Skills 101; Progression occurs in the direction of the movement.

As has been shown in this thread, you are the only one having trouble with that.......For the sake of innocent lives, please don't drive.

But if you someday do, you will see things like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop...w=1517&bih=730

and this:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.x92P4tN3tJc

You're welcome.

.

Last edited by shmessy; 01-10-2019 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:20 AM   #3311
FK4
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by TallIsGood View Post
So bikes donít need to ride in the bike lane and can take a full traffic lane but pedestrians should stay out of the bike lanes that they are entitled to be in?
Uh dude... itís not about ďentitlementĒ but about the law, which says bikes can use a full lane. Pedestrians arenít ďentitledď to use a bike lane when there is a sidewalk right next to it; while thatís not illegal, itís stupid and rude. Nor are bikes allowed on sidewalks in many places (such as Cambridge, and that IS the law). You sound like somebody with some sort of car versus bike axe to grind.

Transportation related behaviors in Boston generally need more regulating, because people drive, bike, and walk more inconsiderately than any city I have ever visited. Thatís a whole different discussion, but other than being constitutionally against bikes I donít see what gets your hackles up about demanding that peds and bikes actually be segregated in places where the government spent millions to design parallel paths. Jeez.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #3312
shmessy
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
Uh dude... itís not about ďentitlementĒ but about the law, which says bikes can use a full lane. Pedestrians arenít ďentitledď to use a bike lane when there is a sidewalk right next to it; while thatís not illegal, itís stupid and rude. Nor are bikes allowed on sidewalks in many places (such as Cambridge, and that IS the law). You sound like somebody with some sort of car versus bike axe to grind.

Transportation related behaviors in Boston generally need more regulating, because people drive, bike, and walk more inconsiderately than any city I have ever visited. Thatís a whole different discussion, but other than being constitutionally against bikes I donít see what gets your hackles up about demanding that peds and bikes actually be segregated in places where the government spent millions to design parallel paths. Jeez.
+1. It's about efficiency of movement. If everyone simply acts like an adult and stay in their lane, Boston can handle 5+ million residents and Odurandina can get all the supertalls he wants.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:18 AM   #3313
Justin7
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Remedial Life Skills 101; Progression occurs in the direction of the movement.

As has been shown in this thread, you are the only one having trouble with that.......For the sake of innocent lives, please don't drive.

But if you someday do, you will see things like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop...w=1517&bih=730

and this:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.x92P4tN3tJc

You're welcome.

.
Nope. Jass is correct. This is dumb and counter-intuitive.

Bikeway looks nice though.
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"You cannot take in a whole Boston street with a single glance of the eye and then lose your interest because you have thus taken the edge off future discovery; on the contrary, every step reveals some portion of a building which you could not see before, some change in your vista, and some suggestion of pleasant variety yet to come, which not only keeps your interest alive but heightens it and persuades you to go on."
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:37 AM   #3314
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
Im reading it how normal people (not highway engineers) read: from top to bottom.

PEDS
TO
YIELD
Yeah, but normal people are actually approaching it from the other direction. The photographer is facing the on-coming traffic, so he is giving you a reverse angle on the image.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:54 AM   #3315
BKNA
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Re: Biking in Boston

people will argue about anything.
pavement marking text is always supposed to be in the direction of movement.
https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads.../bl_delmar.jpg

its not a highway standard applied to a bike lane. even peds get the same treatment:
http://www.pedbikesafe.org/bikesafe/cm_images/34_1.jpg

the only thing that is allowed to change based on speed is the size of text and distance between each line.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:00 AM   #3316
TallIsGood
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
Uh dude... itís not about ďentitlementĒ but about the law, which says bikes can use a full lane. Pedestrians arenít ďentitledď to use a bike lane when there is a sidewalk right next to it; while thatís not illegal, itís stupid and rude. Nor are bikes allowed on sidewalks in many places (such as Cambridge, and that IS the law). You sound like somebody with some sort of car versus bike axe to grind.

Transportation related behaviors in Boston generally need more regulating, because people drive, bike, and walk more inconsiderately than any city I have ever visited. Thatís a whole different discussion, but other than being constitutionally against bikes I donít see what gets your hackles up about demanding that peds and bikes actually be segregated in places where the government spent millions to design parallel paths. Jeez.
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:23 AM   #3317
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallIsGood View Post
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
When there is a properly designed bike lane without any vehicular obstruction (no delivery vehicles, no ride sharing pick up/drop off, no illegally parked cars, and wide enough to prevent being doored, most cyclists will stay in the bike lane except to pass other, slower moving bikes. Give us space to pass, and we'll stay out of the other lane completely.

Where are these lanes that make it possible to never enter the so-called car lane? Sure, there are a few here and there, usually running for a hundred yards or so, no more. Contrast that with sidewalks, which are ubiquitous in Boston. Pedestrians do not have a usage requirement to be in the street or in a designated off street bike path. They always have adequate facilities. Now if you want to talk about street crossings, I'll be the first to argue that Boston doesn't do enough for pedestrians, but I have never once seen a pedestrian in a bike path because there is no alternative option for them to conveniently walk safely.

Your false equivalence is rejected.

Last edited by HenryAlan; 01-10-2019 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:54 AM   #3318
jass
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Remedial Life Skills 101; Progression occurs in the direction of the movement.

As has been shown in this thread, you are the only one having trouble with that.......For the sake of innocent lives, please don't drive.

But if you someday do, you will see things like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop...w=1517&bih=730

and this:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.x92P4tN3tJc

You're welcome.

.
You are completely missing the point.

Those standards were developed for 10 foot high text to be read by traffic moving at 60mph.

So you really only see one word at a time.



LANE





ENDS






MERGE






RIGHT



In lower speed areas, the same intention applies because stopped traffic can be blocking some of the signage so you again see it in the order of movement.


But it makes zero sense on bike facilities with 3 foot high text set up like a book when you can see the entire phrase at once, and where bikes do not block text.

There is no point in applying highway standards to a bike facility. Bikes are not trucks.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:47 AM   #3319
FK4
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallIsGood View Post
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
Some cyclists are entitled. See my previous post. So are drivers and peds. Nobody follows the rules in Boston and nobody enforces them; the result is rudeness, inconsiderate behavior and chaos to an extreme. That's not a hyperbole, I've lived and been to many other cities and never seen anything like the situation we have here.

And yes, some cyclists are annoying and entitled. But in many cases, there is actually a need to occupy the full lane to bike safely. There's polite ways of doing this and rude ways, but some drivers will never care one way or another and flip out regardless.

Lastly, that's NOT the same argument I'm making. Yielding to peds at a crossing is different than walking right down the bike lane playing on your phone when there's a sidewalk right next to you.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:37 PM   #3320
fattony
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
You are completely missing the point.

Those standards were developed for 10 foot high text to be read by traffic moving at 60mph.

So you really only see one word at a time.



LANE





ENDS






MERGE






RIGHT



In lower speed areas, the same intention applies because stopped traffic can be blocking some of the signage so you again see it in the order of movement.


But it makes zero sense on bike facilities with 3 foot high text set up like a book when you can see the entire phrase at once, and where bikes do not block text.

There is no point in applying highway standards to a bike facility. Bikes are not trucks.
I'm sorry you feel the law and the official road marking guidelines don't make sense. Write your congressman. In the meantime, do you think you can dispense with the threadshit?

Thanks,
Everyone
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