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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM   #1741
BostonBoy
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

Does the study advocate the "Urban Ring"? I have always believed a cheap way to alleviate traffic in the Seaport was to initiate a shuttle from there to Back Bay, and then incorporate it into the Grand Junction renewal. It would connect the Convention Center to the Hynes Auditorium, and then connect the Back Bay to Kendall Square, North Point and North Station, while also providing commuter service to North Station from Worcester. It should be established before the Turnpike viaduct is re-built or that opportunity will become much more expensive
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM   #1742
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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Just seems silly to look at full electrification and a full EMU fleet right now. Fairly clear that the north side will probably be electrified 10+ years after the south side, and the outer zones of the franklin line and greenbush/plymouth (with single-tracked service) probably don't justify electric service yet (if ever). Heck, doing every line inside 128 (either south only or both north/south) for EMU short-turns would be a cost that is much easier to swallow, with dual-modes providing service outside 128, switching from electric to diesel power (just like the New Haven Line branches).

That order for 1500 EMU's in one shot is such a joke. Never happening.
Well. You don't buy 1500 cars and expect delivery of 1500 cars at once.
You buy a contract for 1500 cars at a set price (typically a better price for buying in bulk), and accept delivery of cars incrementally. 10 years isn't that long of a time frame when building this many EMU's and rolling them out on separate lines. By the time northside is ready to go, you got new rolling stock coming off the assembly line to satisfy that need.

See orange/red car procurement....
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM   #1743
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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This is why the focus needs to be on an incremental approach, such as the method described in the TransitMatters white paper. There is no reason we can't start with alternative one and through phases work toward subsequent alternatives. This presentation is a mess.
I don't think what they've shown exactly precludes or undermines an incremental approach. They costed the alternatives at full-build, but I think it goes without saying that it won't be built in a day or even just a couple of years. At least that should be obvious to the people involved in making and evaluating these comparisons. It is probably not clear to the public, lawmakers, nor the journalists who are going to convey this to the public and lawmakers.

To my eye, Alternative 7 is clearly what the MBTA wants to pursue. No doubt these concept solutions, with uniform application of concepts with very little nuance, are ultimately all strawmen and the only price tag we need to care about is Alternative 7.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #1744
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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I don't think what they've shown exactly precludes or undermines an incremental approach. They costed the alternatives at full-build, but I think it goes without saying that it won't be built in a day or even just a couple of years. At least that should be obvious to the people involved in making and evaluating these comparisons. It is probably not clear to the public, lawmakers, nor the journalists who are going to convey this to the public and lawmakers.

To my eye, Alternative 7 is clearly what the MBTA wants to pursue. No doubt these concept solutions, with uniform application of concepts with very little nuance, are ultimately all strawmen and the only price tag we need to care about is Alternative 7.
The only "vision" is Alt 6. Anything other than Alt 6 for the Rail VISION study is a joke. From the beginning, they said the VISION would not be constrained by cost or time nor would it be a formal planning study, yet here they are constraining the VISION. The vision should be set at fully electrified rail service. If MassDOT wants to fight and whittle it down in the subsequent feasibility and planning studies, then fine. But a VISION other than Alt 6 is unacceptable.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #1745
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

Oh ok so 6 is NSRL. Theyre planning out to 2040, do they even have a choice? Can anyone imagine not even starting nsrl until after 2040. They have no choice, so I expect it to finally be in play. Its not even an option the discussion has to only be how... Anything less is a DISASTER. Traffic is now the worst in the US, its funny now, but there will be a direct economic consequence of this... and everyone knows the answer to how to fix it and absolutely turbocharge the economy/workforce in the process.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM   #1746
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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The only "vision" is Alt 6. Anything other than Alt 6 for the Rail VISION study is a joke. From the beginning, they said the VISION would not be constrained by cost or time nor would it be a formal planning study, yet here they are constraining the VISION. The vision should be set at fully electrified rail service. If MassDOT wants to fight and whittle it down in the subsequent feasibility and planning studies, then fine. But a VISION other than Alt 6 is unacceptable.
This is a good point. The semantics and optics of the study are important. Vision should be about reaching for maximum possibilities. DOT shouldn't be allowed to lower expectations so far so fast.
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Old Yesterday, 11:44 AM   #1747
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

Absolutely if nsrl is not in the cards until after 2040 that is the biggest mistake in Bostons history. I dont care what it takes but if it means drastic measures there is no choice. There is no choice.

Nsrl is BARE MINIMUM. From there they can wiggle around with multi modal locomotives as a stop gap and electrify as we go... thats fine if need be.
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Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM   #1748
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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Oh ok so 6 is NSRL. Theyre planning out to 2040, do they even have a choice? Can anyone imagine not even starting nsrl until after 2040. They have no choice, so I expect it to finally be in play. Its not even an option the discussion has to only be how... Anything less is a DISASTER. Traffic is now the worst in the US, its funny now, but there will be a direct economic consequence of this... and everyone knows the answer to how to fix it and absolutely turbocharge the economy/workforce in the process.
You're funny. So long as Charlie's in charge, that ain't gonna happen.
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 PM   #1749
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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I'm with you on the sandbagging, but the MBTA had nothing to do with this study.
And where did MDOT get it's data?
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Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM   #1750
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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And where did MDOT get it's data?
The estimating was done by a third party.
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Old Yesterday, 07:22 PM   #1751
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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The estimating was done by a third party.
Uh-huh.
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM   #1752
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

My take is that the MBTA is saying that they don't want to do electrification. Which I find surprising.
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #1753
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

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My take is that the MBTA is saying that they don't want to do electrification. Which I find surprising.
Really, when your unions are full of diesel mechanics?
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