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Old 06-18-2007, 07:46 AM   #481
stellarfun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadowhawk
Thanks Stellarfun. I didn't think about soil depth. There is after all a tunnel under the Greenway, which I suppose limits certain types of trees that have deep root systems. I'll have to research the root system of pine. As someone else pointed out, the proximity to the ocean may be a factor. I know that at Crane Beach in Ipswich that pine trees are abundant at the sands edge beyond the dunes. I thought that pine trees were indigenous to this region and that there should be more of them in the city. The conifers on the Public Garden look healthy even with all the exhaust from the traffic that surrounds them. I'm a tree hugger, of course, and very fond of pine, spruce and fir trees, and think they would add some color to a potentially barren looking landscape during the winter months.
Meadowhawk, I too agree that a nice stand or two of conifers on the Greenway would be neat.

Roger Cook (This Old House) has a short discussion of seaside plants, and factors to consider. He mentions only the Japanese black pine as a solid choice on his list.
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...216631,00.html

I think I read that thousands of Austrian pines, which are often recommended for urban planting, where salt can be a factor, are dying on Block Island. (The Austrian pine looks ugly when fully grown though.)

Roger's article also cautions about the effect of wind on conifers, particularly in the winter. That may be a big factor given the phalanx of tall buildings set to line the park area of the Greenway.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:23 AM   #482
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Conifers on the Greenway

Thanks Stellarfun. You are a font of information. I just don't want the Greenway to become the Grayway during the winter months. It's funny how everyone has a different image of what the Greenway should look like. I know initially it won't meet everyone's expectations, but over time it should develop a unique character of its own. If it were up to me I would have huge fountains and Japanese gardens, a pine grove, and a signature building by Frank Geary. I want this undertaking to be spectacular and unique to the area. The Greenway is not Comm Ave, but something original and I'd like the planners to get it right the first time. After all they've had 18 years or more to plan. Thanks again for the website you've directed me to.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:22 PM   #483
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One evergreen that there is plenty of in the Greenway are yews, destined to become miserable and scrappy. I think someone at the Turnpike must have gotten a deal on yews.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:08 AM   #484
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You people are a bunch of miserable complainers. The Greenway has had a very rough start, I'll agree. But the idea of it is great. It's not going to "suburbanise" Boston. That's ridiculous. I wonder how many people might have said that when Central Park was being built. Ok, maybe not a fair comparison.....How about Millennium Park in Chicago. Having a park like this is one of the things that makes Boston more livable than other cities. Have you people been down to Congress Street or Summer Street? It basically, since The Dig, looks like Worcester because of the lack of landscaping and planning. At least there's hope for an area where there's a little life in Boston.

if you want a completely urban setting go live in downtown Detroit......You'll be one of the only ones.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:29 AM   #485
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Its going to be alot better when there are actually large amounts of people there, and the buildings are built.

Any updates on these buildings? Have they even started construction? Whats taking so long besides funding?
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:26 AM   #486
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The Armenian Heritage Park.


I had not realized that this was the parcel on which they want to build it.

Photo courtesy of Boston Business Journal

Story from Boston Business Journal that appeared several weeks ago. A different take on the meeting than what appeared in the Globe.

Quote:
A controversial proposal to build an Armenian Memorial on the Rose Kennedy Greenway is again under fire, with a city-appointed task force asking a state agency to weigh in on the matter.

The Armenian Heritage Foundation's plan to build a memorial on the greenway has ignited opposition from community groups and city officials -- including Mayor Thomas Menino -- since it was publicly unveiled last year.

But now the Mayor's Central Artery Completion Task Force has asked for an advisory opinion from the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act Office of Massachusetts Executive Office of Environmental Affairs as to whether the Armenian Heritage Foundation has followed the public process.

The mayor's task force -- appointed to work with the city and state to vet the programming and design for each of the greenway parcels -- contends that the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority did not bring its plans for what is known as Parcel 13 before the task force and chose to instead designate the Armenian Heritage Foundation as the developer. Parcel 13 is located in the North End near Christopher Columbus Park.

The task force alleges the foundation is not following the established public process and that it continues to hold meetings with community groups despite opposition to putting memorials on the greenway. In addition to seeking an advisory opinion for the state, the task force and the Rose Kennedy Greenway Conservancy have gone on record opposing any memorials on the greenway for five years.

In place of soliciting the task force's, city's or state's opinion, the Armenian Heritage Foundation has instead "conducted an extensive series of one-on-one meetings and presentations as well as several larger meetings with various groups and organizations," according to a May 4 letter to state officials written by Robert Tuchmann, co-chair of the mayor's task force. The letter goes on to say "no such meeting has been made to the Mayor's Central Artery Completion Task Force."

The Turnpike Authority continues to hold meetings with community groups -- with the most recent occurring on May 9 at the Nazzaro Community Center in the North End -- and the mayor's task force has asked MEPA to "issue to the MTA a letter indicating that the redevelopment of Parcel 13 should follow the established procedures which have applied to all other designations and designs along the greenway."

The public comment period on the Armenian Memorial proposal ended Tuesday, and MEPA is not expected to make a decision until June 8. Officials at MEPA declined to comment until a decision is reached.

The Armenian Heritage Foundation was designated as the development of the parcel by former Turnpike Authority Chairman Matthew Amorello last June. The current chairman, John Cogliano, was not available for comment, but authority spokesman Jon Carlisle said one potential option the MTA might entertain would be to issue a request for proposals for

Parcel 13 that would allow any interested parties to propose a design.
"Chairman Cogliano's goals are to move the process forward but to do it in a way that allows all interested parties to add their voices," said Carlisle. "We want to make sure the process is as open as possible and solicits as many (opinions) and input as possible."

In a letter dated May 7, James Kalustian, president of the Armenian Heritage Foundation, wrote that his group has tried to meet with the task force several times and has been rebuffed. Kalustian said the foundation "wishes to clarify the facts so this project, and the process we followed, can be seen in a true light."

The foundation has held 33 meetings to date, including a meeting with Tuchmann in October of 2005.

It also says the memorial is dedicated to commemorating contributions by all Armenians to Massachusetts, with a small statue in memory of those killed in the Armenian Genocide. Kalustian states community groups including the Wharf District Task Force and the North End Waterfront Residents Association support the project. [Bolding mine]

"I think there are some people that are concerned about process. I think there are some people who really don't want this park on the greenway, and I really don't understand why," said Kalustian.

But try telling Nancy Caruso that. Caruso is a North End resident and co-founder of the North End Waterfront Central Artery Committee.

"I want them to go through the process," she said. "Everybody else had to follow the rules."
Perhaps we should rename it the Massachusetts Heritage Greenway, with parcels set aside to commemorate other nationalities, French Canadians, Poles, Greeks, Portuguese, etc. I guess you could say that Christopher Columbus park honors the Italians.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:58 AM   #487
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You people are a bunch of miserable complainers

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, when I walk around the Greenway, look at the plantings, the layouts, and think of the MILLIONS of tax dollars spent on planning, site preparation, and plantings thus far, remember the decades of promises made, and then I take the time to walk around the site several times and I offer some recommendations and yes, criticize some of the results thus far, if that makes me a miserable complainer...then guilty as charged! I do know something about landscape plantings and, IMO, much of the landscaping and plant types planted to date (and I walked much of it yesterday) are, IMO, very disappointing and unimaginative. To make a slight comparasion, the park at Post Office Square had the WOW factor from the very beginning, it was almost instantaneous. But if you're happy with the results so far, hey, that's cool. I just think that the Rose Kennedy Greenway could/should be so much more than the elaborate median strip MUCH of it is now...and I will be the first to applaud and eat crow if, in 10 years, it turns out to be so much more than it is now. I do understand it's early...but I also understand this state and this city and it's agencies! Hopefully, the RKG Conservancy will do better!
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:08 AM   #488
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Armenian Heritage Park

The Greenway should not, in my opinion, turn into some sort of memorial in and of itself. Nor should the Greenway be political in any way. In my humble opinion, the Greenway should be a pleasant walkway for all to enjoy, devoid of anything making a political statement. I do condone the building of the Boston Museum and the Horticultural Society's winter garden, should that project ever get off the ground. But to start distinguishing different sections of the Greenway by nationality is a big mistake and will set in motion proposals for all sorts of memorials which would be disastrous in my opinion. If various nationality groups want to propose memorial gardens then I think it would be wonderful to erect them in areas of the city where there are vacant lots. This would be an opportunity to turn something hopeless and barren into something beautiful and useful.
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Old 06-19-2007, 09:54 AM   #489
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I had a recollection that the landscaping contract was put out to bid in 2003 or 2004, the contract being for the procurement of the trees, shrubs, and perennials that would be planted on the Greenway. I distinctly remember that these were being bought several years in advance to acclimate the plants to New England winters and minimize winter die-off. So choices were made some years ago about what plants would be used, and how many of each, and these quantities became the core of the contract.

As the Turnpike Authority has excised much of the info that was once on the Big Dig website, I can't find the data on actual contract award.

But through Google, I did find this in an article appearing in a Tulane University alumni magazine (Summer 2000 issue) about the Tulane alumnus who made the decisions about what plants would be used.

Quote:
Millon has been at work on the Central Artery surface restoration since 1997, exhaustively designing all aspects of the landscaping. And this year the final plans go out for bids.

Specifications for what is expected to be a $10.6-million contract for trees, shrubs, perennial flowers and ground cover went out in April. In a novel approach to procuring plants, Millon and his firm have linked the growing and the installation of the trees into one contract. They're requiring the nurseries supplying the trees to be within a three-hour drive from Boston so the trees will be acclimated to Boston winters. While the trees will begin to be grown in 2001, they won't be planted on the Central Artery surface until 2005, when the elevated highway is down. And the final payment to the contractor who grows and plants the trees won't be made until the trees have been happy and healthy for a year in the new "pristine" Central Artery.

The trees--pear, maples, plane trees, ginkgo, linden, honeylocust, elms, oaks, horse-chestnut and scholar, along with flowering shrubs and ivy--are only the flora part of the landscaping.
http://www2.tulane.edu/article_news_...ArticleID=3184

My recollection is that plant contract did not finally go out for bid until 2003 or so.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:26 AM   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantaden
You people are a bunch of miserable complainers

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, when I walk around the Greenway, look at the plantings, the layouts, and think of the MILLIONS of tax dollars spent on planning, site preparation, and plantings thus far, remember the decades of promises made, and then I take the time to walk around the site several times and I offer some recommendations and yes, criticize some of the results thus far, if that makes me a miserable complainer...then guilty as charged! I do know something about landscape plantings and, IMO, much of the landscaping and plant types planted to date (and I walked much of it yesterday) are, IMO, very disappointing and unimaginative. To make a slight comparasion, the park at Post Office Square had the WOW factor from the very beginning, it was almost instantaneous. But if you're happy with the results so far, hey, that's cool. I just think that the Rose Kennedy Greenway could/should be so much more than the elaborate median strip MUCH of it is now...and I will be the first to applaud and eat crow if, in 10 years, it turns out to be so much more than it is now. I do understand it's early...but I also understand this state and this city and it's agencies! Hopefully, the RKG Conservancy will do better!
My comments are mainly directed toward the people who are complaining that we're building a park at all.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:30 AM   #491
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Millenium Park in Chicago. I want it.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:39 AM   #492
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Millenium Park Chicago

Millenium Park in Chicago is an absolute monstrosity!!! I had no idea what it looked like until I saw this picture of it. Only now do I have a new found appreciation for the simplicity that is the RKG!
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:50 AM   #493
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Re: Millenium Park Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadowhawk
Millenium Park in Chicago is an absolute monstrosity!!! I had no idea what it looked like until I saw this picture of it. Only now do I have a new found appreciation for the simplicity that is the RKG!
We disagree.

I consider Millennium Park to be the standard by which the RKG should be measured.
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:57 AM   #494
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Millennium Park has been in the top three tourist destinations in The USA since its opening. Imagine the amount of dollars that brings to the city.
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:21 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by callahan
Millennium Park has been in the top three tourist destinations in The USA since its opening. Imagine the amount of dollars that brings to the city.
Huh?

Source?
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:26 AM   #496
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Millennium Park is a gem. I never tire of visiting it when I am in Chicago (which is infrequently). The Greenway will be a very different place, but one which I hope and believe will ultimately be a great success.

I am sure that there were those in Chicago (perhaps on a Board much like this) who believed that the former rail yard that became Millennium Park could have been put to much better use with the construction of new buildings to fill in the gap in the cityscape. After all, there were (and are) many parks in close proximity to the site. If these individuals were out there, almost everyone (with the possible exception of Meadowhawk) agrees that they were proven wrong. I hope (and believe) that the same will one day be said about the naysayers of the Greenway.
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:52 AM   #497
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Millenium Park is an enormous success. In the summer that place is FULL of people. On a nice summer evening, the two fountains that spit water are crowded with families. The kids love it.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:22 PM   #498
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Millenium Park Chicago

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like certain aspects of Millenium Park, such as the theatre itself, because I love Frank Geary's work. I object to the overhangs that criss-cross the lawn, and hang above the seating area. I don't particularly like the shape of the lawn. The snake-like bridge is clunky looking, it should have been made sleeker and less bulky looking, IMO. To the left of the concert venue in juxtaposition to a modern sculpture park is a small classical column park. The two simply don't seem to compliment each other. I also doubt seriously that Millenium Park is one of the top three tourist destinations in the USA. Am I supposed to believe that this park is up there with Washington, D.C, NYC, the Grand Canyon, Hollywood, Miami, Las Vegas, etc.? If I am the only person on this board to think that Millenium Park, popular as it may be, is still a monstrosity, then it makes me sort of proud. However, in its over-the-top presentation, it still remains offensive to my aesthetic sensibilities.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #499
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Re: Conifers on the Greenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadowhawk
If it were up to me I would have huge fountains and Japanese gardens
Not next to each-other, I hope...

Quote:
a pine grove.
A nice idea...

Quote:
and a signature building by Frank Gehry.
Please no...
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Old 06-19-2007, 01:02 PM   #500
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Beton Brut: No, the fountains would be spaced out like on every other parcel. I would like to use filtered water pumped in from the harbor. There would only be a couple of Japanese rock gardens and these would be similar to the one at the MFA, which I think is quite beautiful. A pine grove done correctly would be very special. In light of the fact that the Horticultural Society cannot come up with the funds for the winter garden, I think one of their parcels down near South Station would be an ideal spot for the pine grove, let's say four rows, each row consisting of 6 tall pine, dead center in one of the parcels. That's how I would imagine it.
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