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Old 06-09-2017, 03:10 PM   #1
dirtywater
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Proposed Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street | Downtown

According to Banker & Tradesman, the Dock Square Parking Garage near Faneuil Hall is being marketed as a redevelopment opportunity:

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Original owner and developer Dock Square Parking Assoc. LLC has hired Newmark Knight Frank to market the property overlooking the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway. Built in 1980 and renovated in 2007, the 264,462-square-foot structure contains 16,100 square feet of ground floor space occupied by Hard Rock Cafe.
The article indicates that a real estate source predicts the property could get approximately $160 million.
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Old 06-09-2017, 03:29 PM   #2
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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According to Banker & Tradesman, the Dock Square Parking Garage near Faneuil Hall is being marketed as a redevelopment opportunity:



The article indicates that a real estate source predicts the property could get approximately $160 million.
Whats the zoning 200ft? With the above parking garage netting 10 Million a year. Another great spot for a solid development.
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Old 06-09-2017, 04:59 PM   #3
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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Whats the zoning 200ft? With the above parking garage netting 10 Million a year. Another great spot for a solid development.
According to the article, the zoning allows for a height of 125 feet.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:29 PM   #4
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Looking forward to a possible redevelopment of this parcel. The nexus of this parking garage and probably the worst stretch of the greenway create one of the most uninviting areas of downtown Boston.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:55 PM   #5
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

how about a 6~8 story open air/Marriot Marquis type of thing on top of the parking?
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:26 AM   #6
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

The area is too valuable for above ground parking structures. Parking needs to go underground, allowing maximum street activation, with the new development on top.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:16 AM   #7
TheRifleman
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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The area is too valuable for above ground parking structures. Parking needs to go underground, allowing maximum street activation, with the new development on top.
If the parking is so valuable then the city is going to have to give the developer some real height to bury the garage or we have another harbor garage scenario.
Where burying the garage becomes to risky for the developer/investor for the limited zoning of the parcel.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:23 AM   #8
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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Looking forward to a possible redevelopment of this parcel. The nexus of this parking garage and probably the worst stretch of the greenway create one of the most uninviting areas of downtown Boston.
Agree. Notably, this is next to the haymarket hotel parcel (if that thing ever starts)...the two redevelopments next to each other should make a big difference on that stretch
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:14 AM   #9
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

$160 million for a parcel with zoning allowing for only 125 feet? Do the economics really work?
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:31 AM   #10
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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$160 million for a parcel with zoning allowing for only 125 feet? Do the economics really work?
At the allowed height, probably not. But what in Boston gets built within zoning allowances? Our entire urban planning process is built on begging for zoning variances.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:41 AM   #11
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

Yeah, this is another harbor towers garage. NIMBY's are going to demand someone pay 160M to tear down garage and build a park, while not realizing if the garage is making money developer has no incentive to make quick deals in order to get project started.
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:12 AM   #12
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

If street and ramp recongifuration were in the cards, this could really be an opportunity to fix this stretch of the greenway. As is, its a pretty terrible hole in the middle of the waterfront.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:03 AM   #13
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

The property is assessed for $54 million. The HT garage is assessed for $112 million. Land area for Dock Sq garage is assessed at $51,000 a square foot. HT garage at $78,000 a sq ft. As with the HT garage parcel, I expect the state will restrict any digging next to the tunnel, and the state owns the entire sidewalk on the Greenway side. $160 million sounds rich to me, seeing that is about the same price paid for the HT garage ten years ago.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #14
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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If street and ramp recongifuration were in the cards, this could really be an opportunity to fix this stretch of the greenway. As is, its a pretty terrible hole in the middle of the waterfront.
i'm confused about the complaints about these ramps on this forum.

the Greenway traffic capacity seems to be one of the few examples of planning for the future of a dense City & Downtown; including more hotels/residences from West End & Waterfront to the Seaport, Chinatown, Southie and beyond.... Then there's Charlestown, East Boston & Cambridge (holy crap). i can't imagine future traffic won't push the infrastructure to it's limits.

The Beerway is fantastic. (God forbid), there would ever be a fire a Downtown highrise. emergency services access might further preclude removing these ramps.

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Old 06-12-2017, 10:21 AM   #15
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

I'm not saying get rid of the ramps. I'm saying there's potential to make them less disruptive to the urban fabric in general and the greenway specifically (and also maybe an opportunity to IMPROVE traffic flow by distributing away from the surface artery to parallel routes like commercial st.) by modifying their layout, modifying the layout of the roads around them, and/or building on top of them.

I recognize that the Roi on these interventions would be pretty terrible and thus any modification is very unlikely to happen.

Current traffic is pushing the infrastructure to its limits. As long as Boston remains prosperous, future traffic will do the same for any future capacity increases. My interest is in more elegantly embedding that capacity into the city fabric.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:23 AM   #16
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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Yeah, this is another harbor towers garage. NIMBY's are going to demand someone pay 160M to tear down garage and build a park, while not realizing if the garage is making money developer has no incentive to make quick deals in order to get project started.
North end residents will be in an uproar over this if the developer request 500 or 600ft. I actually would want only 250-350 on this location but not sure if it makes economic sense for an investor to take out the garage at that point.

Maybe the Barr foundation can buy the site and make it into a park for the public.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:37 AM   #17
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

^^ahh crap you beat me to the point by a few seconds....

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The property is assessed for $54 million. The HT garage is assessed for $112 million. Land area for Dock Sq garage is assessed at $51,000 a square foot. HT garage at $78,000 a sq ft. As with the HT garage parcel, I expect the state will restrict any digging next to the tunnel......
Developers search out workable environments. This ain't that! Sinking this garage is close to abject lunacy. Building and more importantly, getting banks interested in funding a project large enough to put that garage underground would probably mean a hotel pushing over ~480'.

Developers observing the >1 decade process at the Garden and Harbor Garages not only have those guideposts, but this one is an island surrounded by multiple historic spaces, and the Greenway.... on the other side of the Greenway is the North End Waterfront anti-development community.... fighting a few of our City's landmarks & shadow police is one thing, fighting the North Enders' trench warfare would be well past the call of duty (they're so nuts, they're fighting the little corner retail shops proposed across the Greenway at 198 Hanover St)....

But, sinking this garage would mean taking on the combined armies from every one of the far reaches of Boston. It looks like a nightmare scenario, imo.

It seems the best choice, which also would encounter minimal pushback, would be a clever, improvised facade for the garage that makes it look allot more like an ordinary building.... then, adding floors to put visitors in the middle of paradise. Hope it happens.






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Old 06-12-2017, 11:56 AM   #18
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

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I'm not saying get rid of the ramps.
I am. Get rid of the ramps. There are other ramps less than half a mile in either direction. Reconnect North Street.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:41 PM   #19
TheRifleman
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

I'm curious what the garage generates yearly in parking revenue. If an investor takes this out for 160million--- I would say that investor/developer would be willing to park the money their for a very long-time.

How many spaces?
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:31 PM   #20
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage, 20 Clinton Street

I am assuming we will end up with something like The Boulevard, with a robotic garage underneath.
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