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Old 05-11-2018, 09:08 PM   #21
TallIsGood
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

Problem is that wind and solar are not base load so you would need batteries to provide on demand power. Absent technological improvements there is a practical limit to their percentage of power they can provide a stable grid.

Panasonic is hesitating in new investments with Tesla sonwe will see. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Bus...-partner-Tesla
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:34 PM   #22
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

CATL is not going to be able to produce enough batteries to reduce the demand for Panasonic's batteries; there's plenty of unmet demand for all the batteries both can manufacture.

And you don't need ``base load generation''. Wind + solar + natural gas peaking turbines work just fine, though of course batteries would be better than the natural gas peaking plants. Much of the demand in the pre-renewable grid varied throughout the day, too.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:57 AM   #23
TallIsGood
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

Natural gas isnít renewable. Also we need more pipeline capacity for natural gas.
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #24
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

My preference is getting people off the grid.

Quote:
Natural gas isnít renewable. Also we need more pipeline capacity for natural gas.
In theory at least if people used something else (eg: solar) it would reduce demand for natural gas and thus lessen the need for more pipelines. You're still going to need something for heat here though.
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:24 AM   #25
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

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Originally Posted by jklo View Post
In theory at least if people used something else (eg: solar) it would reduce demand for natural gas and thus lessen the need for more pipelines. You're still going to need something for heat here though.
You need something for base load generation -- solar and wind are both intermittent, so cannot cover base load effectively.

Reminder Pilgrim Nuclear is very likely to be retired in the near future. We are going to be in a world of hurt is we cannot replace that base load generating capacity -- most likely with natural gas (if we can get the pipelines). You simply cannot replace high up time nuclear base load generation with solar and wind.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:24 PM   #26
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

During one recent summer, one of the Millstone units was actually not running during the actual peak hour of the year because two of their four circulation pumps were out of commission, and then less than a week later, Pilgrim wasn't running at full power because Cape Cod bay where they draw their cooling water was getting too warm.

Renewable generation tends to not abruptly shed as much generation all at once as a nuclear plant when a nuclear plant trips offline.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:01 AM   #27
JeffDowntown
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

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Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
During one recent summer, one of the Millstone units was actually not running during the actual peak hour of the year because two of their four circulation pumps were out of commission, and then less than a week later, Pilgrim wasn't running at full power because Cape Cod bay where they draw their cooling water was getting too warm.

Renewable generation tends to not abruptly shed as much generation all at once as a nuclear plant when a nuclear plant trips offline.
Yes, and regional electricity prices went through the roof, businesses were asked to curtail usage and our economy suffered.

We either need reliable local base load generation (plus a lot of renewable on top of that) or we need to build the transmission lines to bring in hydropower from Quebec. Without that our regional economy will be in a world of hurt.

Current grid structure can only handle about 30-40% renewables, before it becomes impossible to load balance. Germany/Denmark discovered that limit, and hence are burning a lot of our dirty coal for base load (the ugly reality of their renewable success).
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:14 PM   #28
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

I've read claims that the actual reason coal has been so slow to be phased out in Germany is that Angela Merkel has been more effective than Trump at preserving coal jobs for the sake of preserving jobs.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:50 AM   #29
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

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I've read claims that the actual reason coal has been so slow to be phased out in Germany is that Angela Merkel has been more effective than Trump at preserving coal jobs for the sake of preserving jobs.
That and 1) they are phasing out all their nuclear reactors (1/2 offline already) and 2) they don't want to be blackmailed by Russian natural gas.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:39 PM   #30
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

https://www.clf.org/blog/renewable-e...n-new-england/ says New England has enough behind the meter solar (which powers loads that then don't get counted in the ISO New England system load) that the mid-afternoon system demand on April 21, 2018 ended up having a low point lower than the low point in overnight demand.

Clearly we need more batteries.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:23 AM   #31
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

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Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
Clearly we need more batteries.
And west facing solar panels.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:16 AM   #32
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Re: New England Electrical Grid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
https://www.clf.org/blog/renewable-e...n-new-england/ says New England has enough behind the meter solar (which powers loads that then don't get counted in the ISO New England system load) that the mid-afternoon system demand on April 21, 2018 ended up having a low point lower than the low point in overnight demand.

Clearly we need more batteries.
So is your entire investment portfolio Tesla stocks or...?
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