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Old 06-27-2018, 10:44 AM   #1201
DominusNovus
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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What about doing a Red Line branch tunnel? Stop at Aquarium and then North Station. Would be way cheaper I imagine.
Would it? Id be surprised if its much cheaper, since youre still boring a tunnel under the city, and, on top of that, you might interfere with a future NSRL.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:53 AM   #1202
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Would it? Id be surprised if its much cheaper, since youre still boring a tunnel under the city, and, on top of that, you might interfere with a future NSRL.
Plus you're forgoing the real advantage of NSRL which would be an effective capacity increase for both north and south stations plus making it much easier for the northern sector of the commuter rail to get to more of Boston without Boston.

You also have the fact that it's more efficent to go through then it is to stop and turn around.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:59 AM   #1203
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Yep. And if we want a direct connection between West Station and North Station, it actually already exists on the surface, so why would we tunnel for that? A full build out West to North would involve some underpasses for car traffic, a second track and some signalling upgrades. No tunnel is required for establishing that service pattern.
Before somebody goes berserk, I'm not advocating abandoning the NSRL. But I think a Plan B even if more imperfect isn't a bad option. West station to North Station I assume involves the Grand Junction Railroad and bridge at BU which isn't going to be able to handle the traffic so obviously some $$$ would be needed to upgrade. But if you improved that section, be it tunneling, overpasses or whatever, once you get to Beacon Yards you could then send the train over to Back Bay and South Station. I'd be curious what a study of this option showed, especially since using this right of way has already been discussed by the state previously for Worcester to North Station service IIRC.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:58 AM   #1204
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Who does a NS-BB/SS line via Grand Junction serve?

If you're coming from the North Side and want to get to SS, it would be quicker to transfer to OL at NS.

If you're coming from the South Side and want to get to NS, it would be quicker to transfer to OL at BB.

It doesn't free up any operational flexibility at NS or SS, as the consist would still be required to reverse direction.

Doing it via West Station does give an Allston-NS route that's faster than the Green Line, but upgrading the Green Line (especially the BU Comm Ave stretch) with signal priority, better stop spacing, and high-level boarding seems like a much better bang for your buck and is already in the works.

Worcester to North Station via Grand Junction with no service to Back Bay even seems more useful than this proposal.
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:18 PM   #1205
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Who does a NS-BB/SS line via Grand Junction serve?

If you're coming from the North Side and want to get to SS, it would be quicker to transfer to OL at NS.

If you're coming from the South Side and want to get to NS, it would be quicker to transfer to OL at BB.

It doesn't free up any operational flexibility at NS or SS, as the consist would still be required to reverse direction.

Doing it via West Station does give an Allston-NS route that's faster than the Green Line, but upgrading the Green Line (especially the BU Comm Ave stretch) with signal priority, better stop spacing, and high-level boarding seems like a much better bang for your buck and is already in the works.

Worcester to North Station via Grand Junction with no service to Back Bay even seems more useful than this proposal.

I'd say two things. 1) You give North and South commuters a one seat ride to Back Back, West Station and North Station, thus connecting those hubs and job clusters. 2) More importantly you make it easier to move the trains around from one side of the system to the other. Using the existing route more or less that's in place now but with more capacity than an old bridge and a single track crossing several streets in Cambridge. The stretch from SS to Beacon Yards would by and large be unchanged.

Beyond that, yes you would allow Worcester to North Station as well as a side benefit.
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:24 PM   #1206
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Oh I totally see the advantage of opening up the Grand Junction for revenue service, and better non-revenue moves. The aspect I'm questioning is the reverse move NS-WS-BB service pattern. Worcester-NS would be a cool, useful thing to implement.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:26 AM   #1207
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Today in terribly un-researched takes:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...oDO/story.html
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:19 PM   #1208
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Sheesh, I had no idea that I was a septugenarian.
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Old 09-04-2018, 05:17 PM   #1209
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Seems that to me, that this plan is just a pipe dream that is going nowhere.

If they really wanted to do it, then, the opportunity was there when the Big Dig was being done. They blew it!
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:13 PM   #1210
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Re: North-South Rail Link

That piece is actually insulting. It makes no attempts to actually address the benefits of the NSRL, nor does it acknowledge the major systemic issues that are unaddressable without a link. (Has the author ever been on the core Orange Line during rush hour?)

Which brings up another point-- what expertise does this person have that makes her qualified to get an opinion on this matter published? This reeks of the "my-opinions-are-as-valid-as-your-facts" anti-intellectualism that seems to be everywhere now.

It's provincial attitudes like this that make me cynically hope that Amazon goes anywhere else, simply so that these people will be stuck with a city that continues to fade into obscurity.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:31 PM   #1211
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Which brings up another point-- what expertise does this person have that makes her qualified to get an opinion on this matter published? This reeks of the "my-opinions-are-as-valid-as-your-facts" anti-intellectualism that seems to be everywhere now.
Their expertise, in this case, is that they are a Boston Herald op-ed page refugee. Any self-respecting Herald veteran, having of course been inflamed with Howie Carr-itis for decades now, sees any public works project as a horrendous "boondoggle." Boondoggle boondoggle boondoggle boondoggle--learn it, love it, live it. It's nice to have fetishes, isn't it?
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:45 PM   #1212
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Originally Posted by Riverside View Post
That piece is actually insulting. It makes no attempts to actually address the benefits of the NSRL, nor does it acknowledge the major systemic issues that are unaddressable without a link. (Has the author ever been on the core Orange Line during rush hour?)

Which brings up another point-- what expertise does this person have that makes her qualified to get an opinion on this matter published? This reeks of the "my-opinions-are-as-valid-as-your-facts" anti-intellectualism that seems to be everywhere now.

It's provincial attitudes like this that make me cynically hope that Amazon goes anywhere else, simply so that these people will be stuck with a city that continues to fade into obscurity.

Call it what you will. If it was to be done, it should've been done eons ago.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:20 PM   #1213
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Call it what you will. If it was to be done, it should've been done eons ago.
So a good idea that wasn't done in the past becomes not possible because... it wasn't done in the past? Fhwat?
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:43 PM   #1214
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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So a good idea that wasn't done in the past becomes not possible because... it wasn't done in the past? Fhwat?
Exactly. Jahvon9's argument is ridiculous.

I'm just glad Obama never said "Well, the last administration had Bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora but blew it, so that should end that pipe dream...."
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:23 AM   #1215
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Exactly. Jahvon9's argument is ridiculous.

I'm just glad Obama never said "Well, the last administration had Bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora but blew it, so that should end that pipe dream...."

As the old saying goes;I will believe it when I see it. Born at night, NOT LAST NIGHT.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:58 AM   #1216
HenryAlan
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside View Post
That piece is actually insulting. It makes no attempts to actually address the benefits of the NSRL, nor does it acknowledge the major systemic issues that are unaddressable without a link. (Has the author ever been on the core Orange Line during rush hour?)

Which brings up another point-- what expertise does this person have that makes her qualified to get an opinion on this matter published? This reeks of the "my-opinions-are-as-valid-as-your-facts" anti-intellectualism that seems to be everywhere now.

It's provincial attitudes like this that make me cynically hope that Amazon goes anywhere else, simply so that these people will be stuck with a city that continues to fade into obscurity.
Not saying this as a slam against millenials, but as I read it, I kept thinking that the author was incredibly immature. Turns out she's much older, but predominately a Herald op/ed writer, so, no surprise at the opinion trumps facts writing style.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:23 AM   #1217
cadetcarl
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Re: North-South Rail Link

Can't wait for the term 'millennial' to die outright. Millennials now comprise people in their thirties. We are more progressive, and care more about public transit and infrastructure.

It seems to me that it's a safer assumption to make that some old, out of touch person who doesn't ride the train every day would be the person spouting this garbage. I know you didn't mean to take a swipe, so in the future please consider just not mentioning it.
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:15 PM   #1218
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Can't wait for the term 'millennial' to die outright. Millennials now comprise people in their thirties. We are more progressive, and care more about public transit and infrastructure.

It seems to me that it's a safer assumption to make that some old, out of touch person who doesn't ride the train every day would be the person spouting this garbage. I know you didn't mean to take a swipe, so in the future please consider just not mentioning it.
Just to clarify a bit, I've read a lot of stuff lately written by people in their 20s that follows a similar style to this piece and am pretty fed up with it. But you are of course correct that we shouldn't generalize or jump to uninformed opinions based merely on questions of style.

Now get those damn kids off my lawn!
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:21 AM   #1219
bobthebuilder
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Just to clarify a bit, I've read a lot of stuff lately written by people in their 20s that follows a similar style to this piece and am pretty fed up with it. But you are of course correct that we shouldn't generalize or jump to uninformed opinions based merely on questions of style.

Now get those damn kids off my lawn!
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:31 PM   #1220
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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So a good idea that wasn't done in the past becomes not possible because... it wasn't done in the past? Fhwat?
Getting the Feds to cough up the $15-$20B needed to fund the link is going to be nearly impossible now. Especially with them being beyond broke. And face it, that's what it's going to cost to do it and to be worth doing. That's sort of why I was kind of looking into alternatives.

I don't think SSX is happening either so my guess is that you will see the status quo for some time.
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