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Old 09-15-2006, 03:04 AM   #1
briv
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Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

Thought these parcels deserved their own thread:


South waterfront may get mall
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Friday, September 15, 2006

A large mall could be in the cards for a key piece of South Boston?s fast-developing waterfront, one of the city?s top builders believes.
The new owners of a 20 acre-plus site - near Fan Pier and Pier 4 - that was recently sold by global news baron Rupert Murdoch may include a large retail focus, waterfront developer Joseph Fallon said.
The new owners, local tower developer John Hynes and New York financial firm Morgan Stanley, would include this major mall component, though, as part of a larger, mixed-use complex, Fallon said.
?I think there will be a retail component - a mall,? Fallon, told real estate executives Wednesday night in response to a question after a speech on his own major waterfront undertaking at Fan Pier.
Fallon is in a unique position to make such predctions, having bought the Fan Pier harborside development site last year. Fallon is now preparing to build a 3 million-square-foot neighborhood of hotel, condo and office high-rises on the site - just across Northern Avenue from the recently sold Murdoch land.
Hynes, the top Gale Co. executive whose group just bought the Murdoch site, could not be reached for comment.
However, the developer, in a previous interview, told the Herald he would be open to teaming up with builders, including Steve Karp, dean of the local retail development community.
Karp, who made his fortune building malls, including the Cambridgeside Galleria, owns the development rights to another key waterfront parcel, Pier 4. And he competed to buy the Murdoch land himself with hopes of building a major retail complex.
In fact, some have argued that a large retail component is needed to knit together this stretch of harborfront, just across the Fort Point Channel from the Financial District in South Boston. The site has been targeted for years by City Hall for redevelopment. A number of long-delayed big projects are now poised to move forward.
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:16 AM   #2
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Right on, a mall! I hope they're able to include plenty of parking, and some greenspace. That'd be really awesome.
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:34 AM   #3
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I thought the mall was already planned for the space between the WTC and Convention Center? With Nordstrom's already signed up as a tenant?
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Old 09-15-2006, 11:07 AM   #4
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Two malls! Double awesome!

Okay, removing my wise-ass hat, there is another mall planned for next door, though I believe getting Nordstrom's for that mall remains speculative.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:13 PM   #5
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Re: McCourt Seaport Parcels

Quote:
Originally Posted by briv
Thought these parcels deserved their own thread:

In fact, some have argued that a large retail component is needed to knit together this stretch of harborfront, just across the Fort Point Channel from the Financial District in South Boston.
I didn't know the Financial District was in Southie. More top-notch journalism from our friend. Coming next: South Boston Government Center.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:29 PM   #6
Ron Newman
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You misparsed the sentence. Adding a comma would help:

just across the Fort Point Channel from the Financial District, in South Boston.

or, better:

in South Boston, just across the Fort Point Channel from the Financial District.
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Old 09-15-2006, 04:13 PM   #7
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Thanks, Ron. I understood what he was trying to say. I just wanted to poke a little fun at our favorite punching bag. This reminds me of the book "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss. Great stuff, you should check it out sometime.
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:27 PM   #8
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Im so disappointed with the way the Seaport is shaping out. To build one mall there is great mistake, but to build two is an outright tragedy. It appears their intent is to recreate Prudential Center/Copley Plaza on the waterfront.

What a huge lost opportunity. The Seaport couldve been amazing.
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Old 09-15-2006, 08:08 PM   #9
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I really think that South Boston waterfront should become the new entertainment district that includes hotels, a mall, convention center, movie theater, digital billboards, restaurants, and other attraction. In another word, Boston's own 24-hr district,
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFenX
I really think that South Boston waterfront should become the new entertainment district that includes hotels, a mall, convention center, movie theater, digital billboards, restaurants, and other attraction. In another word, Boston's own 24-hr district,
A portion should be zoned for adult entertainment. Liven things up a bit in the Seaport, and give those conventioneers something to do. Who knows: maybe even the sailors will want to come back.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablarc
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFenX
I really think that South Boston waterfront should become the new entertainment district that includes hotels, a mall, convention center, movie theater, digital billboards, restaurants, and other attraction. In another word, Boston's own 24-hr district,
A portion should be zoned for adult entertainment. Liven things up a bit in the Seaport, and give those conventioneers something to do. Who knows: maybe even the sailors will want to come back.
Ablarc, you're remarks may be in jest, but I lean toward DarkFen's ideas too. Boston could use more nightlife and both the city and state could use the revenue it would generate. From an architectural and urban planning standpoint, the area as a whole is probably already beyond redemption, at least in the style of old Boston. A modern urban area with interesting sidewalk activity and entertainment venues could be attractive in its own way and is the probably the best that can be hoped for at this point. A smallish casino and later closing times would help enliven the area as well.
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tocoto
Ablarc, your remarks may be in jest, but I lean toward DarkFen's ideas too.
Not in jest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tocoto
Boston could use more nightlife and both the city and state could use the revenue it would generate.
That's two reasons why.
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Old 09-17-2006, 07:08 PM   #13
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From 1980 to 1991, The Channel a 1,500 capacity rock and roll club operated at 25 Necco Street, the largest and (IMO) best in Boston. Before that it was the notorious Mad Hatter disco.


"There's a low ceiling, two bars and functional, non-bolted tables around the perimeter (plans are to raise this area to improve presently iffy sight lines), but the nicest feature may be the two back picture windows overlooking Fort Point Channel. These lend a floating, cabin-cruiser ambiance. A stone floor is also neatly dovetailed with carpeting, giving what patron Toni Seger praised as a 'subterranean feel.'"

Steve Morse, Boston Globe, June 5, 1980
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:35 PM   #14
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I believe this was torn down for Big Dig construction, as it was directly in the way of the I-90 tunnel.
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Old 09-18-2006, 03:48 PM   #15
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It used to be directly across from the Postal Annex and it's been a parking lot for the last 15 years. It was an amazing setting for a rock club with the industrial buildings largely vacant and the city at night on the other side of the channel.
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:45 AM   #16
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Seaport for shopping? Developer eyes retail mecca in Southie
By Scott Van Voorhis
Boston Herald Business Reporter
Tuesday, October 3, 2006


As much as a million square feet of shops, restaurants and even big- box stores could take shape on a key Hub waterfront site near Pier 4 and Fan Pier,the project?s developer told the Herald.

But street level, Back Bay-style retail establishments, not a mall, are envisioned, said John Hynes, the lead local developer for the investment group that recently bought the 23-acre former Frank McCourt/Rupert Murdoch site.

Moreover, it is just one piece of an even larger retail constellation - and possibly millions more square feet of retail space - that Hynes, one of Boston?s top builders, sees taking shape on South Boston?s emerging waterfront district, just across Fort Point Channel from the towers of downtown Boston.

Hynes? comments come as his development team, which includes New York money partner Morgan Stanley, sketches out plans for what may be one of the most important development sites in Boston.

?Ours is going to be much more of a streetscape retail program,? Hynes said.

Hynes - a top executive at the Gale Co. - and his partners recently shelled out $203 million for the McCourt tract - the largest in South Boston?s waterfront district. It had been owned for decades by local developer Frank McCourt, who sold it earlier this year to Rupert Murdoch?s News Corp. in a complex deal that gave him the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Hynes, who built State Street?s new downtown tower headquarters, hopes to have construction permits in hand in 18 to 24 months.

Hynes said he sees retail taking shape on the ground floors of high-rises and other buildings on the former McCourt site, with offices, hotels, and apartments and condos on the floors above. It is a lineup that could include both big box and department stores.

Hynes said he is eyeing as much as 6 million square feet of commercial and residential development.

But it is just one piece of a much larger, retail puzzle taking shape on the waterfront.

Overall, South Boston?s waterfront could support a total of 2 million to 3 million square feet of new retail space, said Hynes, citing internal market studies. Other major retail constellations include big projects slated for nearby Fan Pier and Pier 4.



Link
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Old 10-06-2006, 08:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
But street level, Back Bay-style retail establishments, not a mall, are envisioned
Of course, there is a mall in Back Bay, but who's counting...

Seriously though, are they specifically trying to make the Waterfront the most boring neighborhood in the city? Did Hynes really go "Hey guys, I've got it! Let's put in the same exact stores everyone else in the country has! That'll make the visits of all those convention-goers oh so memorable! Boston is so on the map now." Between the car-centric traffic layout, the hordes of business casual out-of-towners, and now this, the Waterfront is well on its way to becoming a neighborhood the rest of the city won't have anything to do with. Oops.
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Old 10-07-2006, 12:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by quadratdackel
Between the car-centric traffic layout, the hordes of business casual out-of-towners, and now this, the Waterfront is well on its way to becoming a neighborhood the rest of the city won't have anything to do with. Oops.
Unfortunately, compromises have to be made and the Seaport District has to have some kind of indoor, car-accessible retail. Otherwise, it will never be the kind of 24/7/365 destination everybody would like it to be. Nobody, Bostonians & Conventioneers alike, is going to want to go outside in 3 feet of snow and -30 degree wind chill off the Harbor to go to Mom & Pop's Pizza Shack on the corner of D & Summer. The Seaport District would be a ghost town from December-April.
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Old 10-20-2006, 12:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by NIMBOB
Unfortunately, compromises have to be made and the Seaport District has to have some kind of indoor, car-accessible retail. Otherwise, it will never be the kind of 24/7/365 destination everybody would like it to be. Nobody, Bostonians & Conventioneers alike, is going to want to go outside in 3 feet of snow and -30 degree wind chill off the Harbor to go to Mom & Pop's Pizza Shack on the corner of D & Summer. The Seaport District would be a ghost town from December-April.
That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. Still, parts of downtown are on the same harbor and don't shut down. Why should the Waterfront be any different?
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:38 AM   #20
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Yes, that North End sure is dead in winter without an indoor shopping mall. An indoor mall is hardly the type of place I'd describe as 24/7.
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