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Old 12-14-2018, 11:13 AM   #1381
bigpicture7
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Re: Regional Rapid Transit Plan (including the North-South Rail Link)

^ thanks for clarifying / offering this breakdown of what you meant.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:15 AM   #1382
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
One additional point I feel compelled to make:

It may be true that places like Belmont, Winchester and Concord aren't likely to go for dense multi-story apartments and condos in walking distance to regional rapid transit stations.

However...

There's a whole constellation of honest-to-god cities on the Eastern Mass rail network here that already have very dense and highly walkable develop patterns, and that can nonetheless also support even denser rapid-transit-oriented development
.

Just on the Northside, we're talking about:

- Chelsea
- Salem
- Beverly
- Lowell
- Lawrence
- Haverhill
- Lynn
- Waltham
- Swampscott

That's like 500,000+ people. (Yes, I know that not all 500,000 are going to be in walking distance of the train.) That's a lot of people.

And all of those places will (and already are) enthusiastically embracing dense, multi-story downtown apartments & condos.
YES. And add to that the populated and walkable areas on the south side - including the entirety of the Fairnount line, Needham line, and Worcester Line out to Auburndale... along with Brockton, Stoughton, Canton, Legacy Place, University Ave, Norwood, Walpole, Hyde Park... that's huge.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:26 PM   #1383
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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How are you going to replicate that in even less dense areas that are actively hostile to any mode but automobile?
Once Gen-Xers age out, I see the population decreasing in the burbs anyway because yes you need a car there with or without the Link. But I do see the density increasing greatly within 128, and that's why I think the focus should be Indigo/128 and not Regional Rail. Done correctly, you are basically adding another 3-5 'subway lines' to the system.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:31 PM   #1384
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Once Gen-Xers age out, I see the population decreasing in the burbs anyway because yes you need a car there with or without the Link. But I do see the density increasing greatly within 128, and that's why I think the focus should be Indigo/128 and not Regional Rail. Done correctly, you are basically adding another 3-5 'subway lines' to the system.
EMUs RT service levels inside 128, but still RER level service to the outer centers.

Maybe coupled with an express/local concept of service, with designated transfer stations with coordinated schedules, so it is easy to jump between the express and local service.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:12 PM   #1385
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Re: Regional Rapid Transit Plan (including the North-South Rail Link)

Ok so i'm reading the actual report now and it's....a joke.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:26 PM   #1386
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Re: Regional Rapid Transit Plan (including the North-South Rail Link)

Who changed the name of this thread? It's very confusing.

If this thread is about the MA Future of Transportation Report, it should be in a different thread?
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:33 PM   #1387
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Can't be emphasized enough. NSRL is not the project. Regional Rapid Transit is the project, and NSRL is a key element of it.
I changed it based on this. Should I change it back?
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:45 PM   #1388
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Originally Posted by jklo View Post
Once Gen-Xers age out, I see the population decreasing in the burbs anyway because yes you need a car there with or without the Link. But I do see the density increasing greatly within 128, and that's why I think the focus should be Indigo/128 and not Regional Rail. Done correctly, you are basically adding another 3-5 'subway lines' to the system.
I’d be hesitant towards making such broad generalizations. I’m very agreeable to the idea that we’re seeing a general restructuring of how society organizes itself when it comes to work and life, but I don’t think that necessarily means a drastic change in overall patterns. Every commuter from the burbs replaced by someone living in the urban core makes life easier on every remaining commuter. Every person who can work from home makes their commute 20% easier each day they can work from home - meaning that each day they can work from home allows them to live 20% further away and maintain the same overall weekly commute time (actually, thats not how the math works, but you get what I mean).

Yes, living in the city is far more appealing now, but thats not the only change going on.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:52 PM   #1389
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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I changed it based on this. Should I change it back?
Ah ok. Thanks for the context. We at TM have been considering trying to rebrand the NSRL as the Regional Rail Link or something to that effect because it's about the system rather than North or South Station, but we haven't settled on anything.

I think the "Plan" in this thread title is what is confusing because it sounds like it's about a specific plan that was released. What CTSH is getting at is really Regional Rail is the project and NSRL is a component. Maybe just change Regional Rapid Transit to Regional Rail (including link), but ultimately they should be two different threads, as you can have & plan for Regional Rail without the Link, but the Link is useless without Regional Rail.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:52 PM   #1390
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Re: Regional Rapid Transit Plan (including the North-South Rail Link)

Gotcha!
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:36 PM   #1391
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Yes, living in the city is far more appealing now, but thats not the only change going on.
I get the feeling that the group that would prefer the "Wife & Kids Burb Living" will find themselves either sucking it up because of jobs/economic opportunity, or will see themselves in some other part of the country.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:33 AM   #1392
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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YES. And add to that the populated and walkable areas on the south side - including the entirety of the Fairnount line, Needham line, and Worcester Line out to Auburndale... along with Brockton, Stoughton, Canton, Legacy Place, University Ave, Norwood, Walpole, Hyde Park... that's huge.
I don't want to boast about walpole TOO much because it definitely has a lot of issues in regards to housing, BUT...
Two fairly large TODevelopments are going up right next to the Walpole train station.
I believe neither have any affordability tied to them, and it has pushed back on a 40B development further away for YEARS. But it is overall promising to see some sort of TOD happening in a town that I would never think something like this would be allowed. but yeah we definitely need to think about adding regional land use rezoning to any sort of regional rail policy to be the most effective.
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Old 12-15-2018, 09:46 AM   #1393
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Re: Regional Rail (including North-South Rail Link)

Crazy Transit Pitches crackpipe alert. . .

At least if they come to their senses and build on the single alignment that's expandable to 4 tracks without building the whole thing twice, we've ID'd in Congress a *possible* ROW for a new crosstown subway.

Cue up your "Red X" or Green Line Reimagined crayon drawings.


[/ducks]
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Old 12-15-2018, 10:02 AM   #1394
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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I don't want to boast about walpole TOO much because it definitely has a lot of issues in regards to housing, BUT...
Two fairly large TODevelopments are going up right next to the Walpole train station.
I believe neither have any affordability tied to them, and it has pushed back on a 40B development further away for YEARS. But it is overall promising to see some sort of TOD happening in a town that I would never think something like this would be allowed. but yeah we definitely need to think about adding regional land use rezoning to any sort of regional rail policy to be the most effective.

Walpole is an ideal test case for TOD pivots in formerly resistant communities. If next year's Foxboro service trial is successful and they proceed to full-build service, Walpole's schedules will outright double from 16 to 32 round trips daily (conventional peak/off-peak, not even clock-facing RER yet). Besides park-and-ride patronage load-shifting to more appropriately configured Foxboro it'll bring new bus connectivity: more 34E frequencies, the MPO-studied Millis/Medfield-Walpole bus down MA 27, and probably others. They'll see the juicy upside of having a deepening service gravity well, and get a measure from the F'boro schedule doubling of what an RER service doubling would further do for them.
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Old 12-15-2018, 02:44 PM   #1395
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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I get the feeling that the group that would prefer the "Wife & Kids Burb Living" will find themselves either sucking it up because of jobs/economic opportunity, or will see themselves in some other part of the country.
Why? And what about the group that wants the ‘husband and kids burb living’?
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:12 PM   #1396
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Re: North-South Rail Link

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
Walpole is an ideal test case for TOD pivots in formerly resistant communities. If next year's Foxboro service trial is successful and they proceed to full-build service, Walpole's schedules will outright double from 16 to 32 round trips daily (conventional peak/off-peak, not even clock-facing RER yet). Besides park-and-ride patronage load-shifting to more appropriately configured Foxboro it'll bring new bus connectivity: more 34E frequencies, the MPO-studied Millis/Medfield-Walpole bus down MA 27, and probably others. They'll see the juicy upside of having a deepening service gravity well, and get a measure from the F'boro schedule doubling of what an RER service doubling would further do for them.
Oh I HOPE for greater 34e frequencies, and signal priority because while the bus only lane after rozzy square, inbound only from 5-9am is great, there is a lot of unnecessary waiting on that route prior to that small section. But I agree that walpole has a lot of potential, meaning it has a lot of potential to fuck it up too.
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