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Old 06-06-2018, 09:07 AM   #1
shmessy
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Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

OK, we know the USPS needs to be near the airport and Gillette needs to be near at least a small body of water for engineering purposes of the razor manufacturing and that's why they have stubbornly sat at Fort Point, thus wasting a golden spot for an iconic development that would be world class.

Amazon wants Downtown ICONIC. Suffolk Downs ain't gonna do that.

1) Why not offer the USPS relocation to the Suffolk Downs property (even better airport accessibility than they currently have)?

2) Why not offer Gillette land on the same property bordering Short Beach Creek?

3) Opens up Fort Point Channel for Amazon City!!!!!! ***Don't offer Amazon one red cent to do it. The particular location is unmatched by the competitors and should sell itself, thus saving the city/commonwealth the ransom money.

I'm sure there are valid reasons against all this, so please let me have it (and remember, it's just an idea).
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:14 AM   #2
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

It's a good potential plan to open up Fort Point generally, but perhaps not for Amazon... too many contingencies, I'd think.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:08 AM   #3
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

For a variety of reasons, I doubt anyone in East Boston, Winthrop, or Revere would be particularly excited to see HYM's site put to light industrial or logistics uses.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

USPS goes to Dorchester/Southie along 93.

Suffolk Downs is a choke point shytte sheau 5 years out.

wait it's already that now.
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Old 06-06-2018, 02:08 PM   #5
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
OK, we know the USPS needs to be near the airport and Gillette needs to be near at least a small body of water for engineering purposes of the razor manufacturing and that's why they have stubbornly sat at Fort Point, thus wasting a golden spot for an iconic development that would be world class.

Amazon wants Downtown ICONIC. Suffolk Downs ain't gonna do that.

1) Why not offer the USPS relocation to the Suffolk Downs property (even better airport accessibility than they currently have)?

2) Why not offer Gillette land on the same property bordering Short Beach Creek?

3) Opens up Fort Point Channel for Amazon City!!!!!! ***Don't offer Amazon one red cent to do it. The particular location is unmatched by the competitors and should sell itself, thus saving the city/commonwealth the ransom money.

I'm sure there are valid reasons against all this, so please let me have it (and remember, it's just an idea).
Costs. Complexity. Uneconomic without huge tax subsidies that will never return on the investment for taxpayers. Basically moving all that stuff around to make money costs more than you will ever make.

That has been the problem with the USPS move all along. The state was willing to pay for a new location or buy them out not both because it couldn't make the math work. But from the USPS perspective new land anywhere near where they need a facility will cost almost as much as their current location would get them in a sale so then you factor in building an entirely new facility, buying all new equipment (because you can't shutdown the old facility and wait a few months until the new facility opens) and then other relocation expenses and you aren't getting enough from a sale of the old location to cover all those expenses and even just break even. I think even after some big state/fed subsidies they were over a hundred million apart or something like that... maybe a few hundred million off... just so you can convert an industrial area into an office park on Fort Point Channel which as waterfront goes isn't all that impressive a location especially the further back towards the end of the Channel.

As for Gillette... why move Gillette before considering converting their parking lots into garages so you can free up some space for redevelopment? Gillette might be industrial, but they employ a lot of people and make a lot of money that adds to the local economy. While I might look at their parking lots as underutilized city space, Gillette is as important to the economy as a couple Amazon buildings might be so I don't want them thinking about moving where management might just decide to up and leave the state instead.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:08 PM   #6
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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.....As for Gillette... why move Gillette before considering converting their parking lots into garages so you can free up some space for redevelopment? Gillette might be industrial, but they employ a lot of people and make a lot of money that adds to the local economy. While I might look at their parking lots as underutilized city space, Gillette is as important to the economy as a couple Amazon buildings might be so I don't want them thinking about moving where management might just decide to up and leave the state instead.


East Boston/Revere is local. We're not talking about them moving to Alabama.

Gillette's jobs and the revenue would stay here.

In the meantime, $5 billion and 50,000 high paying jobs with a cutting edge 21st century growth company would be added to the region with FAR more efficient space usage than the sprawling land gobbling Gillette plant in what is probably THE jewel location in Greater Boston.

Look, we all love Gillette, but I'm not sure I see your equivalence of the sprawling Cincinnati-based Procter and Gamble product landscraper manufacturing plant to the HQ2 of Amazon and it's 50,000 jobs.

By the way, "Gillette is as important to the economy as a couple Amazon buildings might be..."????? Uh, no. Not even close. Not even in the same universe.

https://boston.pglocations.com/about-gillette/

"Employee Information
Gillette currently staffs approximately 1,300 employees in Massachusetts."

I get your arguments about the steep cost that it may demand on the city/commonwealth for the MOVE, but comparing Gillette and its 1,300 Procter and Gamble employees to the 50,000 Amazon HQ2 employees is not even a starter.

.

Last edited by shmessy; 06-06-2018 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #7
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

As for Gillette. i got another location; READVILLE.

can adding a substantial reservoir suffice?
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Old 06-06-2018, 03:32 PM   #8
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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As for Gillette. i got another location; READVILLE.

can adding a substantial reservoir suffice?
Great idea - - I bet there are plenty of great options in the area.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:08 PM   #9
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Amazon wants Downtown ICONIC. Suffolk Downs ain't gonna do that.
Low-rise works well-enough, often enough, for enough of the tech world (Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft) that I don't see Amazon insisting that a Spire is a must-have.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:51 PM   #10
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Low-rise works well-enough, often enough, for enough of the tech world (Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft) that I don't see Amazon insisting that a Spire is a must-have.
Who said anything about a spire? Not talking architecture, just talking a world class, non-fuel tank location.

Last edited by shmessy; 06-07-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:35 PM   #11
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

Put Gillette across from GE in Lynn, gives them the body of water they need, no neighbors to upset (GE is already industrial, and to the other side is car dealerships) would be better than the bland 1+5's we are going to get there
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #12
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

All theory. Gillette owns the property and isnít planning on selling.
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Old 06-08-2018, 04:24 PM   #13
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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All theory. Gillette owns the property and isnít planning on selling.
Yes, TallisGood. Nobody is reporting that this was occurring at the moment. It is an idea put forth for discussion.

My parents bought their home in Newton in 1961 for $21,900 and sold a couple of years ago for almost $700,000 and got a less expensive home.

Companies do that all the time.

By the way, Gillette doesn't own the property. Procter and Gamble does. The decision would come from Cincinatti.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:51 AM   #14
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Yes, TallisGood. Nobody is reporting that this was occurring at the moment. It is an idea put forth for discussion.

My parents bought their home in Newton in 1961 for $21,900 and sold a couple of years ago for almost $700,000 and got a less expensive home.

Companies do that all the time.

By the way, Gillette doesn't own the property. Procter and Gamble does. The decision would come from Cincinatti.
Yes P&G owns Gillette. Gillette Manufacturing owns the land and buildings. My point is that this is a thought exercise but has no basis in reality just Sim City - Boston Edition.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:15 AM   #15
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Yes P&G owns Gillette. Gillette Manufacturing owns the land and buildings. My point is that this is a thought exercise but has no basis in reality just Sim City - Boston Edition.
So your solution is to let Fort Point Channel remain the most underutilized/wasted world class location in Boston? Jeebus, bring back Mayor Curley and Sunday Blue Laws.

There are possibilities. Old Boston used to sneer at progressive development thought. Those people deserved the city and economy they got for much of the 20th century because they were parochial and defeatist.

Thank God, the Boston of the 21st century has a different outlook on life.

In the meantime, this isn't Bostonbusinessjournal.com nor is it the Development forum of this website. It's a discussion forum, not breaking news.

Last edited by shmessy; 06-09-2018 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:58 PM   #16
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

I didnít say any of that. All I said was Gillette owns the land. You canít just decide they must move. Iím all for redevelopment of the area but itís not going to happen unless Gillette decides to move and if they did I doubly it would be to anywhere else in Mass.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:22 PM   #17
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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I didnít say any of that. All I said was Gillette owns the land. You canít just decide they must move. Iím all for redevelopment of the area but itís not going to happen unless Gillette decides to move and if they did I doubly it would be to anywhere else in Mass.
You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Of course, external forces cannot unilaterally force the company to move. From the very first post in this thread: ".....2) Why not offer Gillette land on the same property bordering Short Beach Creek?: "

What confuses you about the word "offer"?

Offer them incentives. There is money to be made by bringing Amazon here.

It doesn't happen in a vacuum.

And, btw, you keep talking about Gillette as if it were a company. There is no company called Gillette. It ceased to exist years ago.

There is a PRODUCT called Gillette that is manufactured by Procter and Gamble of Cincinatti. If enough money and inducements are offered to that Ohio multi-national corporation, and a suitable location in Eastern Massachusetts is found, it would be a win-win situation for almost everyone, except Luddites who want Fort Point Channel to remain underutilized.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:21 AM   #18
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Yes, TallisGood. Nobody is reporting that this was occurring at the moment. It is an idea put forth for discussion.

My parents bought their home in Newton in 1961 for $21,900 and sold a couple of years ago for almost $700,000 and got a less expensive home.

Companies do that all the time.

By the way, Gillette doesn't own the property. Procter and Gamble does. The decision would come from Cincinatti.
A 700k sfh in Newton? That's a steal. Must be a tare down for a mcmansion at that price.
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #19
shmessy
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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A 700k sfh in Newton? That's a steal. Must be a tare down for a mcmansion at that price.
B-I-N-G-O, but closer to 1,600 sfh.

The developer did a hell of a job and sold it for a fortune.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:26 AM   #20
TallIsGood
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Re: Possible Solution Top Get Amazon to Fort Point Channel

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You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Of course, external forces cannot unilaterally force the company to move. From the very first post in this thread: ".....2) Why not offer Gillette land on the same property bordering Short Beach Creek?: "

What confuses you about the word "offer"?

Offer them incentives. There is money to be made by bringing Amazon here.

It doesn't happen in a vacuum.

And, btw, you keep talking about Gillette as if it were a company. There is no company called Gillette. It ceased to exist years ago.

There is a PRODUCT called Gillette that is manufactured by Procter and Gamble of Cincinatti. If enough money and inducements are offered to that Ohio multi-national corporation, and a suitable location in Eastern Massachusetts is found, it would be a win-win situation for almost everyone, except Luddites who want Fort Point Channel to remain underutilized.
Gillette is actually many companies. See the list of P&G subsidiaries. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...kexhibit21.htm

Also, according to the city assessors website the land is owned by ďGillette ManufacturingĒ.

On the other point - great, make the offer. I wonít hold my breath for their response.
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