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Old 01-05-2018, 03:48 PM   #261
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

The Beachmont flooding service suspension tweet had a timestamp of 10:43, and the service resumption tweet 10:59. Does that imply service was only suspended for 16 minutes, or was the initial tweet delayed substantially?

Are the tracks going to be somehow raised in that area to reduce the risk of this happening in the future?
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:15 PM   #262
jass
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Option 1: We the public spend tens of billions so that the extremely rich have their waterfront properties protected
Option 2: Fuck them. Let them handle their own flood mitigation.

#teamoption2

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Old 01-05-2018, 08:06 PM   #263
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Nice one.

Just to be clear it's all about infrastructure though.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:57 AM   #264
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

I wonder if the jetsons live in a world where the rising seas have become an everyday issue and that's why everyone lives in homes on poles in the sky?
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:28 PM   #265
jl326
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
Option 1: We the public spend tens of billions so that the extremely rich have their waterfront properties protected
Option 2: Fuck them. Let them handle their own flood mitigation.

#teamoption2
You are always so damn salty. Didnít east boston get impacted too?
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Old 01-11-2018, 04:55 PM   #266
millerm277
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
Option 1: We the public spend tens of billions so that the extremely rich have their waterfront properties protected
Option 2: Fuck them. Let them handle their own flood mitigation.

#teamoption2
Yeah! Let's just let all the office buildings where the jobs are, all the transit infrastructure, and whole neighborhoods of the region (many of which aren't rich at all) flood!

There definitely isn't going to be some huge impact on everyone in the city or the region's economy, it's just those rich people who we don't care about who'll get screwed!

https://www.boston.gov/departments/e...n-map-explorer
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:42 AM   #267
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Why does it matter anyways? The current administration gives zero shit about the environment. At the current rate, the state isn't going to receive funding to build these barriers (the fed government rather see that the money goes to building a useless wall in the south) and by the time it ever gets built, flood levels may well breach them within a few years. Let it flood. Unfortunately, people don't take things seriously until they are personally affected.

In the meantime, your best bet is to move inland and hope that those who will eventually be affected by this are the ones who didn't believe that such a scenario will play out.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:20 AM   #268
CSTH
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

This is about:

- logan airport
- the blue line tunnel (100+ years old)
- the Sumner & Callahan
- the I-93 and pike tunnels
- the pike cut in the back bay
- the orange & green line @ north station
- oil & gas storage on chelsea creek
-the power plant & oil & gas on the mystic
- the MBTA powerplant on the reserve channel (to be decommissioned, I know...)
- the huge salt pile on chelsea creek
- innumerable underground electric power & comms wiring
- fire & ambulance access during flood events

... waterfront condos for wealthy people are just a footnote.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:58 AM   #269
JeffDowntown
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
This is about:

- logan airport
- the blue line tunnel (100+ years old)
- the Sumner & Callahan
- the I-93 and pike tunnels
- the pike cut in the back bay
- the orange & green line @ north station
- oil & gas storage on chelsea creek
-the power plant & oil & gas on the mystic
- the MBTA powerplant on the reserve channel (to be decommissioned, I know...)
- the huge salt pile on chelsea creek
- innumerable underground electric power & comms wiring
- fire & ambulance access during flood events

... waterfront condos for wealthy people are just a footnote.
+1 Needed to be said.

Also all the south side rail infrastructure at Cabot Yards and Widett Circle.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:05 PM   #270
DBM
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
This is about:

- logan airport
- the blue line tunnel (100+ years old)
- the Sumner & Callahan
- the I-93 and pike tunnels
- the pike cut in the back bay
- the orange & green line @ north station
- oil & gas storage on chelsea creek
-the power plant & oil & gas on the mystic
- the MBTA powerplant on the reserve channel (to be decommissioned, I know...)
- the huge salt pile on chelsea creek
- innumerable underground electric power & comms wiring
- fire & ambulance access during flood events

... waterfront condos for wealthy people are just a footnote.
You forgot the most vulnerable infrastructure node of them all... the Green Line portals for the C & D lines at Audubon Circle/Park Drive and the B line portal at western edge of Kenmore Sq. Massive overflow from the Muddy River/Charles Basin.

Per the Boston Globe in the wake of Hurricane Sandy:

"In the last century, Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority officials said, there has only been one severe flood in a subway tunnel, in October 1996 when a three-day storm caused the Muddy River to overflow. At least 14 million gallons of water gushed into the Green Line portal between Fenway and Kenmore with such force that it moved tons of rock 500 feet into the tunnel."
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:10 PM   #271
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Boston as well as major parts of Cambridge and Somerville are filled in marshes with the result being flat land near sea level with a lot of infrastructure below sea level. NorthPoint, Fenway, Back Bay, the MIT area, Seaport, the downtown Waterfront, Logan Airport and many others areas are this way. A sea wall is necessary.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:34 PM   #272
tangent
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_mta View Post
Boston as well as major parts of Cambridge and Somerville are filled in marshes with the result being flat land near sea level with a lot of infrastructure below sea level. NorthPoint, Fenway, Back Bay, the MIT area, Seaport, the downtown Waterfront, Logan Airport and many others areas are this way. A sea wall is necessary.
Yes, sea walls costing tens of millions along with some additional fill for raising the elevation... Not a barrier across the outer or inner harbor
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:25 PM   #273
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
- oil & gas storage on chelsea creek
-the power plant & oil & gas on the mystic
Victims of their own popularity? The only part of this we really need in the future is possibly the Jet A storage and delivery infrastructure; the rest should be able to be replaced with renewable generation, electric heat pumps, and electrified transportation.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:29 PM   #274
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_mta View Post
Boston as well as major parts of Cambridge and Somerville are filled in marshes with the result being flat land near sea level with a lot of infrastructure below sea level. NorthPoint, Fenway, Back Bay, the MIT area, Seaport, the downtown Waterfront, Logan Airport and many others areas are this way. A sea wall is necessary.
For NorthPoint, Fenway, Back Bay, and MIT, just upgrading the Charles River dam ought to be sufficient, unless it turns out that there's a bigger barrier further out being built in a timely fashion that will make that dam irrelevant.

In the case of the airport, it might be OK if some of the runways occasionally flood if they're designed to not be significantly damaged by that; the lighting probably should be installed in such a way that the fragile parts are all above the potential flooding level.

The seaport development is recent enough that the developers ought to be building their buildings to withstand the potential flooding.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:32 PM   #275
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBM View Post
You forgot the most vulnerable infrastructure node of them all... the Green Line portals for the C & D lines at Audubon Circle/Park Drive and the B line portal at western edge of Kenmore Sq. Massive overflow from the Muddy River/Charles Basin.
I'm under the impression that the level of the Charles between the Watertown dam and the Charlestown dam might normally be kept somewhere near mean high tide. If that is the case, is pumping the level down before a storm to help water flow through the Muddy River better an option?

Also, would widening / deepening the Muddy River in the Charlesgate area help?
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:54 PM   #276
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

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Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
I'm under the impression that the level of the Charles between the Watertown dam and the Charlestown dam might normally be kept somewhere near mean high tide. If that is the case, is pumping the level down before a storm to help water flow through the Muddy River better an option?
It is. I was told once by the MDC ranger who oversaw the Charles River Dam and the area parks that each of the six pumps at the Charles River Dam move about 25,000 (or maybe 250,000?
it was about 17 or 18 years ago when he told me this, so my memory is foggy) cubic yards of water per minute and could drain the whole Charles River Basin in about two days.
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:02 PM   #277
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Regarding the Muddy River, it's worth noting that its flood/water capacity of the river has been (and will continue to be) greatly improved by the ongoing restoration project.

-Phase 1 daylighted the portions in front of the Landmark Center and by the old jughandle.

-Phase 2 will dredge significant portions of the river and remove a fair amount of the non-native reeds in the Fens.

http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Missio...s/Muddy-River/

http://www.muddyrivermmoc.org/
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:58 AM   #278
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBM View Post
"In the last century, Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority officials said, there has only been one severe flood in a subway tunnel, in October 1996 when a three-day storm caused the Muddy River to overflow. At least 14 million gallons of water gushed into the Green Line portal between Fenway and Kenmore with such force that it moved tons of rock 500 feet into the tunnel."
If you recall, in 2009 / 2010 the T had to shut down the portal at Fenway and block the tunnel with sandbags.

It was said that after 1996, they bought a plug to seal the portal completely in a dire flooding emergency. If it exists, it's never been used... but climate change will probably force them to pull it out of storage eventually.

Last edited by Arborway; 01-17-2018 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:36 AM   #279
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

The Charles River dam ought to be able to protect that portal from sea level rise. And even if climate change does end up causing heavier rain storms, it seems that we also have efforts being made to help the Muddy River drain more effectively.
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:31 PM   #280
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Re: Proposed Boston flood barrier

I like the idea that a flood barrier megaproject could add value beyond risk mitigation. i.e. re-configure long island as a container & RORO port, then re-develop mystic pier, Conley, and the various salt piles (and forgo the cost of dredging the harbor to post-panamax depths).

Mystic pier in particular is the size of the Seaport District.
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