archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-19-2016, 01:27 PM   #41
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,818
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
The change is more than just changing Logan signs. The MBTA would have to change all of its maps & marketing too.
It also maintains flexibility for adding a Concourse D back in at some point in the future. I could see a situation where C gets a satellite arrangement using two different letters (in about 2050, but still).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post

I highlighted possible areas for future gate expansion at Logan Airport. Logan already plans to expand terminal E out to the blue line. I also highlighted a possible Terminal B pier that could possible be built in the future if needed.
Massport considered a satellite for E as one of their alternatives for the expansion and decided against it. Reasoning was that building the gates adjacent to new CBP space allowed the terminal to be more efficient. Once this expansion is done, I'm not sure they'd do any more for several decades.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 01:36 PM   #42
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 1,954
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
Massport considered a satellite for E as one of their alternatives for the expansion and decided against it. Reasoning was that building the gates adjacent to new CBP space allowed the terminal to be more efficient. Once this expansion is done, I'm not sure they'd do any more for several decades.
If passenger numbers expand at 7-8% a year it won't be long before Massport will start having to look at expanding gate capacity. I don't believe 8% growth is sustainable in the long term but even 4-5% average growth would require gate expansion 10-15 years down the road. There certainly is some room for this to happen.

However it does seem like Leisure travel is growing at a faster pace compared to business travel. This would allow the airport to absorb larger numbers of passengers because more flights would be outside of peak time.
tysmith95 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 01:56 PM   #43
datadyne007
Senior Member
 
datadyne007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,218
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
It also maintains flexibility for adding a Concourse D back in at some point in the future. I could see a situation where C gets a satellite arrangement using two different letters (in about 2050, but still).
Perhaps.

I don't see a satellite off C getting marked as D though. A theoretical "D" would have to touch the road & have ticketing counters and such. Otherwise, if ABCE are the main terminals and have the road access & ticket counters, what good does a "Concourse D" have? It doesn't solve the weird "This is Terminal C. The next stop is Terminal E." situation.
__________________
Commuter Rail. Reimagined. Read the report: regionalrail.net
Electrification + High Platforms + Infrastructure + Frequent Service + Free Transfers = #REGIONALRAIL
datadyne007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:21 PM   #44
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,818
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
Perhaps.

I don't see a satellite off C getting marked as D though. A theoretical "D" would have to touch the road & have ticketing counters and such. Otherwise, if ABCE are the main terminals and have the road access & ticket counters, what good does a "Concourse D" have? It doesn't solve the weird "This is Terminal C. The next stop is Terminal E." situation.
Ideally, I'd chuck the terminal letters today - numbering systems should aid wayfinding, but at Logan you can still be dropped off at the wrong curb for flights out of B. Cab drivers know which airlines match with which curbs, but family members might not, and nor might Uber drivers. Past security, any situation where signs are pointing to two different corridors for gates with the same letter (as in C, where signs point to C8-21 and C25-36, not to mention C40-42) is a knock on the labeling system. All three domestic terminals at Logan have this problem.

Logan should have Terminals 1 (A and B for the satellite), 2 (C and D), 3 (E and F on each pier) and 4 (G). Now that they're all getting connected past security, it's time to rip the Band-Aid off.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:23 PM   #45
datadyne007
Senior Member
 
datadyne007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,218
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
Ideally, I'd chuck the terminal letters today - numbering systems should aid wayfinding, but at Logan you can still be dropped off at the wrong curb for flights out of B. Cab drivers know which airlines match with which curbs, but family members might not, and nor might Uber drivers. Past security, any situation where signs are pointing to two different corridors for gates with the same letter (as in C, where signs point to C8-21 and C25-36, not to mention C40-42) is a knock on the labeling system. All three domestic terminals at Logan have this problem.

Logan should have Terminals 1 (A and B for the satellite), 2 (C and D), 3 (E and F on each pier) and 4 (G). Now that they're all getting connected past security, it's time to rip the Band-Aid off.
That would actually be very smart. I'd get behind that. Good point with the "B - Stop 1" and "B - Stop 2" silliness.
__________________
Commuter Rail. Reimagined. Read the report: regionalrail.net
Electrification + High Platforms + Infrastructure + Frequent Service + Free Transfers = #REGIONALRAIL
datadyne007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 02:28 PM   #46
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,444
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
Ideally, I'd chuck the terminal letters today - numbering systems should aid wayfinding, but at Logan you can still be dropped off at the wrong curb for flights out of B. Cab drivers know which airlines match with which curbs, but family members might not, and nor might Uber drivers. Past security, any situation where signs are pointing to two different corridors for gates with the same letter (as in C, where signs point to C8-21 and C25-36, not to mention C40-42) is a knock on the labeling system. All three domestic terminals at Logan have this problem.

Logan should have Terminals 1 (A and B for the satellite), 2 (C and D), 3 (E and F on each pier) and 4 (G). Now that they're all getting connected past security, it's time to rip the Band-Aid off.
This all makes way too much sense for Boston. We love to keep historical artifacts of long lost transportation infrastructure embedded in our systems, just to confuse the "touristas".
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 03:19 PM   #47
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,713
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
It also maintains flexibility for adding a Concourse D back in at some point in the future. I could see a situation where C gets a satellite arrangement using two different letters (in about 2050, but still).



Massport considered a satellite for E as one of their alternatives for the expansion and decided against it. Reasoning was that building the gates adjacent to new CBP space allowed the terminal to be more efficient. Once this expansion is done, I'm not sure they'd do any more for several decades.
Once the Terminal E expansion is complete come 2021, I'd have to imagine Logan is pretty tapped out in terms of working with its current footprint for expansion. Unless come 2025 they want to infill the water to the north of 15R (doubt this would ever fly) and that would give some space for expansion.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 03:25 PM   #48
tysmith95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North Shore
Posts: 1,954
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by mass88 View Post
Once the Terminal E expansion is complete come 2021, I'd have to imagine Logan is pretty tapped out in terms of working with its current footprint for expansion. Unless come 2025 they want to infill the water to the north of 15R (doubt this would ever fly) and that would give some space for expansion.
Near runway 4 and runway 32 on what used to be Governers Island Logan could possibly build an outer terminal and connect it to the main terminals by rail. There could also be more efficent use of space in the cargo area, i'm sure Logan could convince Fedex and UPS to move their cargo plane operations in the Boston area to Worcester/Manchester/Providence.
tysmith95 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 03:29 PM   #49
datadyne007
Senior Member
 
datadyne007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Everett, MA
Posts: 8,218
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
There could also be more efficent use of space in the cargo area, i'm sure Logan could convince Fedex and UPS to move their cargo plane operations in the Boston area to Worcester/Manchester/Providence.
Lol no. That would have an enormous effect on shipping time in a world where Amazon promises next day delivery. Worcester, Manchester & Providence don't have proper customs facilities for cargo operations either. Logan has very robust cargo operations.
__________________
Commuter Rail. Reimagined. Read the report: regionalrail.net
Electrification + High Platforms + Infrastructure + Frequent Service + Free Transfers = #REGIONALRAIL
datadyne007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2016, 08:15 PM   #50
WormtownNative
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Worcester
Posts: 313
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
Lol no. That would have an enormous effect on shipping time in a world where Amazon promises next day delivery. Worcester, Manchester & Providence don't have proper customs facilities for cargo operations either. Logan has very robust cargo operations.
Besides that, Worcester's airport is in the middle of nowhere close to the interstate and up in the fog half the time.
WormtownNative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2016, 03:28 AM   #51
whighlander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
The kind of person who would be paralyzed by confusion when confronted by A-B-C-E would have absolutely no hope at all once they got out of the airport and into the rest of the Boston area.

Like, the difference in the scale of irrational complexity is laughable.

I think it's safe to assume that A-B-C-E is here for the long term.
CSTH -=- If they are going to rename them -- there is only one set of letters that makes sense and its not A, B, C, D -- its C, G, A, T
whighlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2016, 09:20 PM   #52
CSTH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,466
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by whighlander View Post
CSTH -=- If they are going to rename them -- there is only one set of letters that makes sense and its not A, B, C, D -- its C, G, A, T
...or they could just add an explanatory sticker to all the signs that says D: N/A
CSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 10:57 AM   #53
adamh8297
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 500
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

On the Logan Airport Facebook page - Virgin America is moving to Terminal C tomorrow - is this related to B Construction or the Alaska Airlines merger?
adamh8297 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 11:38 AM   #54
SouthEnder88
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 74
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

I feel like more the B construction than merger...there is some murmuring that the Alaska merger may not happen after all.
SouthEnder88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 12:15 PM   #55
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,818
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamh8297 View Post
On the Logan Airport Facebook page - Virgin America is moving to Terminal C tomorrow - is this related to B Construction or the Alaska Airlines merger?
It's construction. MassDOT's bid documents for the project say NTP is in October.

EDIT: Interestingly the detail document on the project includes the following:

Quote:
Construction of the new gate connector space will require careful phasing to ensure airline operations will not be interrupted. In order to enable the continuous use of gates 37-38 during construction, the first phase of the project will include the connection of the existing hold room to the food court area. The existing security checkpoint will remain in operation during this phase. After this secure side connection is made, construction phases can sequentially follow to expand and refinish the holdroom space including new toilet rooms and the decommissioning of the existing checkpoint. It is anticipated that the landside departures level concourse ceiling work will begin at the same time as the first phase of the gate connector work and proceed concurrently with the connector construction scope.
Who do they think is going to be using it, if VX is moving now? Will the construction period be shorter than 16 months if it's empty? I wonder if they just got in under the wire with JetBlue agreeing to let VX share their space...

FURTHER EDIT: Bet that was it. VX twitter says they're in C40-42.

Last edited by Equilibria; 09-29-2016 at 12:45 PM.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 02:23 PM   #56
stellarfun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: salem ma and washington dc
Posts: 4,199
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Per Massport, Spirit is moving to 37-38 on October 4. Spirit has so few flights, the disruption and inconvenience will have less effect.

Alaska uses gates 40-42.
__________________
A man gazing on the stars is at the mercy of the puddles in the road
stellarfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2016, 05:45 PM   #57
mass88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,713
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Is there a project in the works to connect C 40-42 with the rest of C?

Also, why not move the turnaround (I think cabs use it) over in Terminal E as that would allow for some expansion space within the existing footprint.
mass88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2016, 05:41 AM   #58
stellarfun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: salem ma and washington dc
Posts: 4,199
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by mass88 View Post
Is there a project in the works to connect C 40-42 with the rest of C?
Yes. The initial release of the plans for C-E connector also showed a second project to connect 40-42 with the rest of C, post-security. IIRC, this was a more complex project because you had to go outboard of the shops/eating establishments on the south side of C.

I now would not expect it to happen until after American consolidates.
__________________
A man gazing on the stars is at the mercy of the puddles in the road
stellarfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2016, 04:15 AM   #59
whighlander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Quote:
Originally Posted by stellarfun View Post
Yes. The initial release of the plans for C-E connector also showed a second project to connect 40-42 with the rest of C, post-security. IIRC, this was a more complex project because you had to go outboard of the shops/eating establishments on the south side of C.

I now would not expect it to happen until after American consolidates.
Stellarfun --its still listed by Massport as part of the combined C-E project

However, airlines are moving and merging so fast the entire airport ought to be configured to handle ticketing [as in Terminal E] and also OLED walls for promotions for any airline anywhere

I'm willing to bet that such a flexible system would allow a further 25% or so of growth without the need for any further construction [post the E to Blue project] which should take Logan past Mid 21st Century
whighlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 09:55 AM   #60
whighlander
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6,519
Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Anyone have any updates on the actual construction currently underway at Logan -- its been over a month sine the last update with pix
whighlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Logan Airport mass88 Transit and Infrastructure 32 06-28-2013 07:36 AM
If Logan Airport were moved.... JS38 Development Projects 26 11-24-2008 04:25 PM
New Logan 9/11 Monument bostonman Development Projects 28 09-12-2008 12:55 PM
If We Moved Logan Airport... Waldorf General Architecture & Urban Planning 4 04-05-2007 03:25 PM
Welcome to Portland. Business friendly capital of the world grittys457 Greater New England 0 01-12-2007 07:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.