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Old 03-10-2019, 02:48 PM   #1
stick n move
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Northeast Maglev

Did not realize this is actually being taken serious right now. I guess theyre doing the feasibility of NYC-DC Maglev, with DC-Baltimore being looked at as the first leg. I know “if” this even happened, right now Boston isnt in the proposal. (But) if this somehow does actually get in motion, eventually it would have to be in the cards, even as the last portion completed. The Northeast corridor is the goal, but they need to crawl before they can run.

“IS THIS REALLY A SERIOUS PROPOSAL?

Officials from the Central Japan Railway Co., which developed the technology, have been laying the groundwork for a U.S. maglev for nearly a decade. They recruited a team of well-connected U.S. political operatives and investors.

A Maryland-based company, Baltimore Washington Rapid Rail, is now pushing the project. They say that if all goes well, they could begin construction as early as 2020. And they say the maglev could be operating between Washington and Baltimore in 2027.

The Obama administration provided $28 million to study the Washington to Baltimore proposal. Gov. Larry Hogan’s administration agreed to sponsor Baltimore-Washington Rapid Rail through the federal review process.”

“Next year, a draft Environmental Impact Statement is expected to identify a preferred route. The public can comment.

By 2020, the Federal Railroad Administration is expected to issue a final report saying which line, if either, should be built.”

“The Washington to Baltimore leg, which would come first, would cost an estimated $10 billion to $15 billion, according to railroad estimates. It would require significant federal funding up-front. But its backers say they would need no state cash and no ongoing federal funding.

They say fares would be competitive with those for Amtrak’s Acela service, which generally range between $50 and $100, depending on time and class of ticket.”

http://www.govtech.com/fs/infrastruc...tml#closeMobAd
https://northeastmaglev.com

-there are quotes Im not saying this can or will happen, just posting what is being reported.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:49 PM   #2
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Re: Northeast Maglev

“Transportation officials have narrowed to two the number of possible routes for a superconducting maglev train line that would take passengers from Washington to Baltimore in 15 minutes — inching closer to reality a project that some dismiss as unrealistic.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...fb7_story.html


“WASHINGTON — The Mount Vernon Square neighborhood has been chosen as the place District travelers may one day pick up a high-speed train capable of transporting riders at 311 mph.”

https://wtop.com/dc/2018/11/planners...5-minutes/amp/


“Indeed, after 50 years and billions of dollars in Japanese research and development, JR Central says its maglev train is ready for its big rollout — and not just in Japan, where the company has already begun an $80 billion project to extend the mountain test track into a 272-mile commercial line from Tokyo to Osaka by 2037.”

“For nearly a decade, the company also has been working with a team of well-connected U.S. partners to lay the groundwork for a second maglev line along the Northeast Corridor, perhaps some day to Boston. In its first phase, they say, it could transport travelers from Washington to Baltimore in 15 minutes, and later from Washington to New York in an hour, with stops along the way at BWI Marshall Airport and Philadelphia, among others.”

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...htmlstory.html
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:40 PM   #3
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Quote:
IS THIS REALLY A SERIOUS PROPOSAL?
NO.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:51 PM   #4
stick n move
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Lol, not saying anything about it, just posting something that is being reported on. I dont care, if someone wants to read whats going on with this great, if not thats cool too.

I have 0 faith this happens, but as it says “The Obama administration provided $28 million to study the Washington to Baltimore proposal. Gov. Larry Hogan’s administration agreed to sponsor Baltimore-Washington Rapid Rail through the federal review process. Next year, a draft Environmental Impact Statement is expected to identify a preferred route. The public can comment. By 2020, the Federal Railroad Administration is expected to issue a final report saying which line, if either, should be built.”

-which... will say no.

Either way there still is actual money allocated and actual people doing a federal review process so its at the bare minimum worth just checking it out once it comes out and seeing any useful info that may be in there, thats all.

Last edited by stick n move; 03-10-2019 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:21 PM   #5
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Re: Northeast Maglev

No, it isn't worth checking out at all. While Maglev is a real technology unlike Hyperloop...ROW acquisition costs and blockers in the heart of the Northeastern Megalopolis makes it just as imaginary a unicorn. Maglev can't glom onto some old/new/borrowed/blue ROW like HSR can. It has to be totally 100% cleanroom, no sharing. And blow up lots of stuff in its path because it has far lower tolerances for curves than conventional rail. There's no way you can trace a line from D.C. to Baltimore that won't impale itself on its inability to acquire necessary ROW.

$28M to waste paper is not progress, it's a fleecing. That's fed money that could've been used for something/anything actually related to real transit. Instead it's greasing the hype machine for something that will never ever get built in practice.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:33 PM   #6
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
No, it isn't worth checking out at all. While Maglev is a real technology unlike Hyperloop...ROW acquisition costs and blockers in the heart of the Northeastern Megalopolis makes it just as imaginary a unicorn. Maglev can't glom onto some old/new/borrowed/blue ROW like HSR can. It has to be totally 100% cleanroom, no sharing. And blow up lots of stuff in its path because it has far lower tolerances for curves than conventional rail. There's no way you can trace a line from D.C. to Baltimore that won't impale itself on its inability to acquire necessary ROW.

$28M to waste paper is not progress, it's a fleecing. That's fed money that could've been used for something/anything actually related to real transit. Instead it's greasing the hype machine for something that will never ever get built in practice.
“The Post reports that the two potential routes are parallel to the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, and about 75 percent of the route would run about 80 to 260 feet underground.”
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/incredi...15-minutes.amp

“The team of private investors and a sister company, Baltimore-Washington Rapid Rail, claim to have secured financial commitments, including $5 billion from Japan.”

-again not saying it is or isnt happening, Im saying whats being reported.

Last edited by stick n move; 03-10-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:11 PM   #7
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Re: Northeast Maglev

[insert latest investor here] has always claimed to have the money. The ever-changing roster of private pushers has been claiming this for 5 years. And they always bait the media into reporting on it because they have good PR reps.

It's a rope-a-dope. They've got nothing...especially not the means to acquire ROW on whatever path they're touting. But, because "that's what's being reported" by news orgs printing their press releases, they get perpetual mindshare through being shared on social media. So, please stick, DO care that what's being reported doesn't add up in the slightest to a buildable project instead of letting critique stop at "...being reported". Their investors already know they can't physically build the thing and are out to make a buck on the hype until the jig is up.
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:07 PM   #8
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Very very few people ride the Acela between Washington and downtown Baltimore. There will never be any demand, at the price per ticket structure, for Maglev.

And the existing mass transit system is so strapped for money, well, read on.

https://prospect.org/article/washing...playoff-miscue
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:22 PM   #9
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
No, it isn't worth checking out at all. While Maglev is a real technology unlike Hyperloop...ROW acquisition costs and blockers in the heart of the Northeastern Megalopolis makes it just as imaginary a unicorn. Maglev can't glom onto some old/new/borrowed/blue ROW like HSR can. It has to be totally 100% cleanroom, no sharing. And blow up lots of stuff in its path because it has far lower tolerances for curves than conventional rail. There's no way you can trace a line from D.C. to Baltimore that won't impale itself on its inability to acquire necessary ROW.

$28M to waste paper is not progress, it's a fleecing. That's fed money that could've been used for something/anything actually related to real transit. Instead it's greasing the hype machine for something that will never ever get built in practice.
I agree that maglev is very impractical just on the ROW issues alone, and add in the fact that it requires a brand new infrastructure, I don’t see any way that it can work. Even if we could use the same ROWs as the current rail lines, they’d be entirely independent of the rest of the rail system - worse even than those parts of the world with varying guages.

I am curious if you think there can be a place for maglev lines in the US transportation mix in the next, say, 50 years or so (just to pull a number out of a hat). It seems to me that most of the issues are not technological in nature, so its not like better tech will solve them.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:23 PM   #10
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Thats what theyre trying to find out...
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:45 PM   #11
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Re: Northeast Maglev

I can only see the Maglev working if it were to work the entire NER service from Boston to Washington, DC.

Why have it only at certain other cities along the route & not others? I think that it would be more beneficial if it served the entire route. Otherwise, it's no good.

And besides, we'd be looking at years worth of construction headaches to build the thing. Another years-long-Big Dig-style project with expensive shortcomings along the way. No. We're not ready for that yet.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:58 PM   #12
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Re: Northeast Maglev

Plus, these trains run at incredible speeds - close to, or over 300mph - enough to get you from Boston to Washington, DC in about half the time it takes for the Acela to get you there!!

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Old 03-12-2019, 07:39 PM   #13
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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Plus, these trains run at incredible speeds - close to, or over 300mph - enough to get you from Boston to Washington, DC in about half the time it takes for the Acela to get there!!
It can go that fast...but introduce any greater-than-minimal curvature in the ROW and speeds start dropping like a rock, below what conventional HSR does. That's why the only lines in operation today are airport connectors, and the longest one under construction is only 175 miles long between a Japanese city pair. It's physically impossible to create one that contours to the East Coast of the U.S. without the speed clogs of every curve-inducing water inlet or bay whacking speeds well below that of what a 165 MPH Acela can do on sufficiently upgraded and/or bypassed track on an open HSR network. As is, the un-upgraded Acela does D.C.-Baltimore in 33-36 minutes despite having many speed-enhancing upgrades left to tackle on that stretch.

D.C.-Baltimore is almost certainly impossible for those kinds of maglev speeds because of the land takings required in the wall-to-wall density in order to minimize the curvature. This talk about glomming onto the B-W Parkway is a farce. It's a sharp-angled 1950's parkway that doesn't conform to interstate standards. The attempt to sidestep cost-blowout land-takings by running in the median is the very thing that will kill speeds enough that it won't beat the Acela, and certainly not the Acela on an NEC that gets is practical load of upgrades on that stretch funded.

Beware the laboratory speeds that don't take into effect likely curvature. Maglev can climb tall grades like conventional HSR can't, but it chokes on curves.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:54 PM   #14
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Re: Northeast Maglev

More so than speeds, I think a big thing limiting ridership growth for Acela is cost. It already costs more than airline trips, espically with strong competition there.

Acela, and the Northeast Corridor, actually makes Amtrak money. Ground infrastructure should not make money, it should lose money. The highways certainly lose money.

I wish Amtrak would stop seeing Acela as a revenue generator for non commercially viable lines and actually subsidize the northeast corridor.

Maglav sounds nice, but I don't see it happening. NIMBY's, high cost, etc. Just improve Acela and subsidize it more, just like highways are subsidized.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:34 PM   #15
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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Originally Posted by tysmith95 View Post
More so than speeds, I think a big thing limiting ridership growth for Acela is cost. It already costs more than airline trips, espically with strong competition there.

Acela, and the Northeast Corridor, actually makes Amtrak money. Ground infrastructure should not make money, it should lose money. The highways certainly lose money.

I wish Amtrak would stop seeing Acela as a revenue generator for non commercially viable lines and actually subsidize the northeast corridor.

Maglav sounds nice, but I don't see it happening. NIMBY's, high cost, etc. Just improve Acela and subsidize it more, just like highways are subsidized.
The highway system doesn't have to operate as a psuedo private company.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:04 PM   #16
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
It can go that fast...but introduce any greater-than-minimal curvature in the ROW and speeds start dropping like a rock, below what conventional HSR does. That's why the only lines in operation today are airport connectors, and the longest one under construction is only 175 miles long between a Japanese city pair. It's physically impossible to create one that contours to the East Coast of the U.S. without the speed clogs of every curve-inducing water inlet or bay whacking speeds well below that of what a 165 MPH Acela can do on sufficiently upgraded and/or bypassed track on an open HSR network. As is, the un-upgraded Acela does D.C.-Baltimore in 33-36 minutes despite having many speed-enhancing upgrades left to tackle on that stretch.

D.C.-Baltimore is almost certainly impossible for those kinds of maglev speeds because of the land takings required in the wall-to-wall density in order to minimize the curvature. This talk about glomming onto the B-W Parkway is a farce. It's a sharp-angled 1950's parkway that doesn't conform to interstate standards. The attempt to sidestep cost-blowout land-takings by running in the median is the very thing that will kill speeds enough that it won't beat the Acela, and certainly not the Acela on an NEC that gets is practical load of upgrades on that stretch funded.

Beware the laboratory speeds that don't take into effect likely curvature. Maglev can climb tall grades like conventional HSR can't, but it mmchokes on curves.

Even the newer high-speed trains Amtrak is buying will STILL have to slow down a little in certain areas. This was the reason behind that new higher-speed rail that would've ran adjacent to the NER that Amtrak had wanted to build. To be able to accommodate the new trains at higher speeds.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:11 AM   #17
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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The highway system doesn't have to operate as a psuedo private company.
And rail shouldn't have to either. It should be subsdize somewhat.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:34 AM   #18
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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And rail shouldn't have to either. It should be subsdize somewhat.
Our freight rail system is both top notch and profitable. Its not as easy to make and apples to apples comparison for passenger rail and highways, since highways are used for freight and passengers.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:35 AM   #19
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Re: Northeast Maglev

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And rail shouldn't have to either. It should be subsdize somewhat.
Sure, not disagreeing here, just pointing out the why (that would also take an act of congress to change). Also, for the record, Amtrak does gets subsidies, although they have to beg for them every year.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:37 AM   #20
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Re: Northeast Maglev

The curvature and ROW problems are why:

“The Post reports that the two potential routes are parallel to the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, and about 75 percent of the route would run about 80 to 260 feet underground.”

I screenshotted it then outlined it in red.


So they mention tunnels, but on google maps Id say about 70% of the route has a green median anyways.

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