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Old 07-10-2019, 05:53 AM   #21
DowntownDave
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

IIRC the proponent of the B.B. was a potter who made and sold novelty Boston Baked Bean pots from a shop in the North End. I thought he was some crazed abutter wanting to move construction noise to anywhere but near him, but those B.B. flyers started turning up again years after the Big Dig was finished. He must have made thousands and thousands of those flyers and bumper stickers to plaster the city with them.

The plan itself doesn't look too good to me -- many double decker bridges stretching across water/river fronts everywhere. I suspect today he'd just be a Google maps doodler. Would be fun to see what a knowledgeable person such as F-Line made out of it, though.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #22
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Originally Posted by DowntownDave View Post
IIRC the proponent of the B.B. was a potter who made and sold novelty Boston Baked Bean pots from a shop in the North End. I thought he was some crazed abutter wanting to move construction noise to anywhere but near him, but those B.B. flyers started turning up again years after the Big Dig was finished. He must have made thousands and thousands of those flyers and bumper stickers to plaster the city with them.

The plan itself doesn't look too good to me -- many double decker bridges stretching across water/river fronts everywhere. I suspect today he'd just be a Google maps doodler. Would be fun to see what a knowledgeable person such as F-Line made out of it, though.
Looks prohibitively expensive, definitively more so than a NSRL, which would be way better.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:18 AM   #23
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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How about this one?

“Beautiful, beautiful”....
Sounds familiar...
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:36 AM   #24
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

Evidently the proponent of the Boston Bypass passed away in 2018.

Some Globe articles from 1989 (!)

At least some people took him seriously:


Power generation thru "humps on the road" and "summer villas" suspended from the bridges!




A modern viewpoint?
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:38 AM   #25
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

Actually, converting an aircraft carrier into a convention center sounds kind of cool. Not the prison idea, though.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:29 AM   #26
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Would be fun to see what a knowledgeable person such as F-Line made out of it, though.

He's looney tunes.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:56 AM   #27
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Evidently the proponent of the Boston Bypass passed away in 2018.

Some Globe articles from 1989 (!)

At least some people took him seriously:
Wilson was an interesting columnist -- he often highlighted "Way Out of the Box ideas" that were percolating beneath the surface or were considered flaky.

In a certain mystic or mythic irony -- -- Despite all the amazing innovation being generated by business and universities in the area -- officially thinking anywhere outside of the the narrowest of boxes is considered the anathema to bureaucrats in all levels of government

In particular -- the mention of Wilson triggers the memory of several Wilson columns on the Aqua Line concept [Wilson was just the promoter -- the ideas did indeed come from within the T workforce or former T people]--

The essence of the Aqua Line
Quote:
Carry the the Blue Line [Sea Water] through to the Green Line [D to Riverside] [River water] -- essentially following the path of the Charles
The approach was take advantage of the Blue Line already extending down Cambridge St.
  • an Under Charles St Station
  • tunnel along Storrow Dr or alternatively the Commonwealth Ave mall -- running parallel to the Central Subway in the Back Bay
  • crossing to Mass Ave at Boylston St for a Mega Station at Auditorium Under
  • then tunneling to Kenmore Under
  • then surfacing and ruining in the Green Line D ROW to Riverside for a Mega, bus, rail and automobile terminus
A lot of work -- but much of it could be done without disturbance of the T, or even streets using the existing footprints of Storrow and Commonwealth Ave

Uniquely by using the overhead pantograph the Green Line D ROW wouldn't require extensive changes except for raised platforms and some pedestrian overpasses as there would be no issues with lethal voltage at ground level

The real virtues of the Aqua Line would be redundant parallel path from Charles to Mass Ave and true high speed service from Rt-128 in Newton to Logan

Anyway - -the mention of David Wilson brought all that back from the deep storage
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:32 PM   #28
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

I wonder what Zarilli would think of the new flood barrier idea and how some folks have proposed to run a highway/rail corridor over it.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:40 PM   #29
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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I wonder what Zarilli would think of the new flood barrier idea and how some folks have proposed to run a highway/rail corridor over it.

I don't think you could run anything greater than a narrow maintenance access road over the actual flood barrier proposals, because it simply wouldn't be wide enough to carry anything more. Plus, look at what it would have to connect to in Winthrop. How much of the town would have to be bulldozed to fit 6+ lanes through there? Wanton destruction.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:44 AM   #30
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Originally Posted by whighlander View Post
In particular -- the mention of Wilson triggers the memory of several Wilson columns on the Aqua Line concept [Wilson was just the promoter -- the ideas did indeed come from within the T workforce or former T people]--

The essence of the Aqua Line


The approach was take advantage of the Blue Line already extending down Cambridge St.
  • an Under Charles St Station
  • tunnel along Storrow Dr or alternatively the Commonwealth Ave mall -- running parallel to the Central Subway in the Back Bay
  • crossing to Mass Ave at Boylston St for a Mega Station at Auditorium Under
  • then tunneling to Kenmore Under
  • then surfacing and ruining in the Green Line D ROW to Riverside for a Mega, bus, rail and automobile terminus
A lot of work -- but much of it could be done without disturbance of the T, or even streets using the existing footprints of Storrow and Commonwealth Ave

Uniquely by using the overhead pantograph the Green Line D ROW wouldn't require extensive changes except for raised platforms and some pedestrian overpasses as there would be no issues with lethal voltage at ground level

The real virtues of the Aqua Line would be redundant parallel path from Charles to Mass Ave and true high speed service from Rt-128 in Newton to Logan

Anyway - -the mention of David Wilson brought all that back from the deep storage
We talk about this one all the time here under the Blue-to-Kenmore banner. And the reason why T officials informed the old proposal is that it recycles the alignment of the never-built BERy Riverbank Subway from the 1900's along the then- under-construction Charles Basin landfilling...so the path and the dig properties were surveyed to death in real-time.

The only twist from Wilson's several-decades-old plan is that now the terms of engagement are:
  1. Mandate to tear town the most-redundant midsection of Storrow between Kenmore and Public Gardens, with retention at-most of a low-speed two-lane river joyride.
  2. Transfer of displaced traffic to the Pike, with sweeteners of additional WB exits/entrances and a likely waiving of tolls between Allston and 93.
  3. Mandate of a transit trade-in inside the same project area for that displaced Storrow midsection.
  4. Retention of Soldiers Field Rd. (at least the Allston-Kenmore portion) and Embankment Rd. from Public Gardens to 93 because those segments cover routings not approximated by the Pike (though Embankment can get a lane-drop between PG and Charles Circle).
Blue extension is no-go unless all of these conditions are met. But if the metro area comes to an eventual consensus on putting Storrow on a strict parkway diet the other conditions--especially the transit trade-in--fall into place quickly, and Blue-Kenmore leapfrogs several other high-priority transit projects as a direct consequence of action on Storrow requiring trade-in in the same project area.


D Line swallow would NOT be a consideration for that project because it's outside of the scope of the Storrow trade-in's project area. That's something you can consider later as a wholly separately mounted project. I think it's got dubious utility because the D stops by and large don't have the ridership to merit 6-car heavy rail trains. Also, the coming need to replace the Needham Line with rapid transit to relieve SW Corridor congestion and give that line RER-or-better service levels (which it flat-out can't achieve staying on commuter rail) means engaging the handful of grade crossings between Upper Falls and Needham Jct...something heavy rail can't do but light rail can. But, regardless, you would have an open path to take on the D later on so nothing is precluded.

-------------------------

As for how you'd build it. . .
  • Red-Blue @ Charles as currently designed. The tail tracks spread wide around the Red Line viaduct abutments permitting extension in either direction.
  • The inbound (GC) track stubs out under the start of the Storrow EB exit ramp into Charles Circle. Continue that west. The outbound (eventual Kenmore) track stubs out in front of the ex-jail en route to the EB onramp. Make a sweeping curve around the Red station + viaduct abutments, under the bridge, then re-joining the inbound track in the vicinity of the new Esplanade footbridge.
  • Cut-and-cover to the Public Gardens exit. Roadway will have shrunk from 6 to 4 lanes here serving up the room for mitigation-free tunneling. They can scrunch lane-dropped Embankment on the slab of pavement closest to the river while the subway dig is happening, then shift the 4 lanes permanently on top of the subway to free up more parkland.
  • Rebuild or rehab the existing Storrow tunnel by Hatch Shell. Where it widens out for the current Copley exit, put the first intermediate stop: "Esplanade", serving primarily Beacon Hill, State House, and river attractions. Storrow is busted down to a 2-lane river drive on the former WB carriageway starting here.
  • Between end of the current road tunnel and Mass Ave., take the ex- EB carriageway and the Back St. retaining wall. Dig down maybe 6-10 feet on the roadpack so the tunnel is maybe three-quarters below ground and one-quarter above ground. Rebuild the Back St. wall as a combo tunnel wall and surface retaining wall, raising it a couple more feet above street level. In addition to being very cheap tunneling because it's partially above-surface, dual-purpose, and free of utility relocation...waterproofing from Charles Basin is passively provisioned by having the transit tunnel stick on the surface with the new Back St. wall acting as a much-upgraded flood barrier for the Back Bay over the current porous pile of stones. Dirt can be dumped on top of the structure for landscaping...sort of like a second "BU Beach" lounging mound to the south.
  • Cap the deeper-cut ramps under Mass Ave. for a second intermediate stop: "Beacon".
  • At Charlesgate E, turn on diagonal alignment to Beacon St. Muddy River is very shallow, so they should be able to shiv a metal shield through the dirt and dig under that with no surface disruption.
  • Regular old cut-and-cover under Beacon, descending to depth below the Green Line level.
  • Need to intersect Kenmore Station at an angle to minimize the structural underpinning of the Green + Green loop + mezzanine levels. So that probably means a slighly offset Blue platform around Raleigh St. that shrinks back to running tunnel by the time it's next to the ex- BU Bookstore. Extend the tail tracks out to the start of Brookline Ave., digging under the brick plaza in front. Stop here.
  • By pointing onto Brookline Ave., further extension can bang a right under the Worcester Line tracks and pick up the D tunnel with a turn down David Ortiz Dr. to Maitland St. Or go right under the B&A to continue west to Allston for other Crazy Transit Pitches TBD. Or continue up a Brookline Ave. subway for similar mad experimentation in Longwood. I don't think there are any immediate needs to study past Kenmore because the traffic load-shift off of Green allowing more Kenmore backfill of Urban Ring traffic is plenty revolutionary enough. But all 100-year considerations are covered for Blue outbound from Kenmore.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:08 AM   #31
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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true high speed service from Rt-128 in Newton to Logan
Probably 10x cheaper just to electrify Worcester out to Riverside and run 4tph 4-car EMU's shuttles to South Station. You also gain the connection to Silver.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:57 AM   #32
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
We talk about this one all the time here under the Blue-to-Kenmore banner.
As for how you'd build it. . .
  • Red-Blue @ Charles as currently designed. The tail tracks spread wide around the Red Line viaduct abutments permitting extension in either direction.
  • The inbound (GC) track stubs out under the start of the Storrow EB exit ramp into Charles Circle. Continue that west. The outbound (eventual Kenmore) track stubs out in front of the ex-jail en route to the EB onramp. Make a sweeping curve around the Red station + viaduct abutments, under the bridge, then re-joining the inbound track in the vicinity of the new Esplanade footbridge.
  • Cut-and-cover to the Public Gardens exit. Roadway will have shrunk from 6 to 4 lanes here serving up the room for mitigation-free tunneling. They can scrunch lane-dropped Embankment on the slab of pavement closest to the river while the subway dig is happening, then shift the 4 lanes permanently on top of the subway to free up more parkland.
  • Rebuild or rehab the existing Storrow tunnel by Hatch Shell. Where it widens out for the current Copley exit, put the first intermediate stop: "Esplanade", serving primarily Beacon Hill, State House, and river attractions. Storrow is busted down to a 2-lane river drive on the former WB carriageway starting here.
  • Between end of the current road tunnel and Mass Ave., take the ex- EB carriageway and the Back St. retaining wall. Dig down maybe 6-10 feet on the roadpack so the tunnel is maybe three-quarters below ground and one-quarter above ground. Rebuild the Back St. wall as a combo tunnel wall and surface retaining wall, raising it a couple more feet above street level. In addition to being very cheap tunneling because it's partially above-surface, dual-purpose, and free of utility relocation...waterproofing from Charles Basin is passively provisioned by having the transit tunnel stick on the surface with the new Back St. wall acting as a much-upgraded flood barrier for the Back Bay over the current porous pile of stones. Dirt can be dumped on top of the structure for landscaping...sort of like a second "BU Beach" lounging mound to the south.
  • Cap the deeper-cut ramps under Mass Ave. for a second intermediate stop: "Beacon".
  • At Charlesgate E, turn on diagonal alignment to Beacon St. Muddy River is very shallow, so they should be able to shiv a metal shield through the dirt and dig under that with no surface disruption.
  • Regular old cut-and-cover under Beacon, descending to depth below the Green Line level.
  • Need to intersect Kenmore Station at an angle to minimize the structural underpinning of the Green + Green loop + mezzanine levels. So that probably means a slighly offset Blue platform around Raleigh St. that shrinks back to running tunnel by the time it's next to the ex- BU Bookstore. Extend the tail tracks out to the start of Brookline Ave., digging under the brick plaza in front. Stop here.
  • By pointing onto Brookline Ave., further extension can bang a right under the Worcester Line tracks and pick up the D tunnel with a turn down David Ortiz Dr. to Maitland St. Or go right under the B&A to continue west to Allston for other Crazy Transit Pitches TBD. Or continue up a Brookline Ave. subway for similar mad experimentation in Longwood. I don't think there are any immediate needs to study past Kenmore because the traffic load-shift off of Green allowing more Kenmore backfill of Urban Ring traffic is plenty revolutionary enough. But all 100-year considerations are covered for Blue outbound from Kenmore.
Let's do it!!

We need to find $10B or so and then we're off and runnng

-- I just saw a program on Discovery called "Building Giant" about the new underground rail loop for Copenhagen Denmark
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:32 PM   #33
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

Let's keep this on roads and not rails. We have plenty of other threads for that.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:02 AM   #34
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Let's keep this on roads and not rails. We have plenty of other threads for that.
Van -- often there's a significant overlap such as the conversion of the SW Corridor from the SW Expressway to the Orange Line

or D Street tunnel for the Silver Line
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #35
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

Here's my idea for fixing the Alewife intersection bottleneck. It would have only a 1-phase traffic light, and require minimal taking of trees and greenspace, with that mitigated by turning some existing roadway area into greenspace.

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Old 07-15-2019, 06:07 AM   #36
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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Here's my idea for fixing the Alewife intersection bottleneck. It would have only a 1-phase traffic light, and require minimal taking of trees and greenspace, with that mitigated by turning some existing roadway area into greenspace.
If we're gonna rebuild why not just make it it a full 3-way flying junction? Just like the storrow fenway ramps. Only requires one more duck-under than what you drew. Will make the area an ugly mess of highway ramps but it's not exactly desirable to cross the area on foot as it stands anyway.

Also need to eliminate some of the pedestrian grade-crossings on Alewife brook. Lights near a rotary = gridlock.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:12 AM   #37
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

Re: Alewife: the goal has to be focused on T-station BUS/HOV access (and additional parking), since we already know (from earlier studies) that a full-capacity fix of Alewife only succeeds in dumping more traffic onto ABP/FPP/MVP than they can handle. You'd spend $$$$ at Alewife to save 60 seconds there, only to create fuller gridlock on every nearby road. No thanks.

But they do need a way to get station-exit traffic onto Rt 2 outbound. The real solution (requiring no tunneling) is to make the access road 2-way, and to put a Thorndike upramp on the Arlington side.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:46 AM   #38
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

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But they do need a way to get station-exit traffic onto Rt 2 outbound. The real solution (requiring no tunneling) is to make the access road 2-way, and to put a Thorndike upramp on the Arlington side.
That was the original plan, but that would have disturbed the peaceful rural tranquility of East Arlington, you see.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:37 AM   #39
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

How about this proposed reconfiguration of the I93-I95 interchange in Canton? I have only found half decade old documents about this:

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Old 07-16-2019, 06:59 AM   #40
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Re: Unbuilt roads around metro Boston

I really wish they would do something there. That single lane 270 degree turn is such a bottle.
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