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Old 06-17-2019, 11:18 AM   #161
Justin7
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

I maybe shouldn't reply to this, but I'm afraid some of those here who are less versed in these matters may take some of what you're saying as fact. No offense, but this whole thing reads as if you just took an Internet 101 course and now think you're an expert.

"Someone is wrong on the internet!"

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Originally Posted by Wonk View Post
Iím new here relative to most, and more a lurker than a participant. I am, however, an architectural and transit enthusiast, read new posts daily, and greatly regard the participation and depth of knowledge of everyone here.

Itís my opinion that most of the concerns about this issue assume that what weíre all doing is the equivalent of a book club meeting frequently at the library, or a coffee shop. It is not.
I'm not sure what you think you're saying here. The internet is many things. It is business, yes, but it also book clubs, and books for that matter. It is an exchange of information and that information can take virtually any form. I don't know where your jaded point of view comes from on this subject, but you are misinformed.

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What we all are doing is logging into a worldwide publicly available website domain (archboston.org) which has been assigned by an international body (ICANN) to a specific individual. As part of that assignment, the individual is given full autonomy to use that domain as they see fit, and is only limited (effectively) by the local laws and regulations that the site is hosted in. That domain itself is running on a hosting service somewhere which has its own Terms and Conditions.
A domain name is little more than a sign. It points to a location. That's all. Again, I don't know what point you're trying to make. Briv sold the archboston.org sign to Edward. No one is disputing the Edward now owns the domain and do with it what he wishes.

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No poster here, other than Briv, has ever actually, ďRun the CommunityĒ. Thatís just the reality of how the web works. Moderators are nice, but they only exist if the domain administrator agrees.
Did Geocities run every website hosted under the geocities.com domain? Of course not. We can get into a semantic argument about the meaning of the word "run," but that's not going to move this discussion forward.

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Three minutes of searching, and I was able to determine archboston.org is hosted at ionos.com, a European based firm. Someone with more M&A background would be better at determining copyright standing of US generated content for an EU based firm, but they bought 1&1, who bought (name a thousand tiny webhosts that were bought up after Briv created the site)./QUOTE]

This has zero relevance to any of this. I will note however that the domain's current whois information is inaccurate which is itself a violation of ICANN's terms and grounds for suspension/cancellation. [Should probably look into that, Ed.]

Here are Ionosí Terms and Conditions: https://www.ionos.com/terms-gtc/gene...nd-conditions/

A few highlights:

[copy/paste of terms]

It goes on for twenty-four sections (section 21 is titled, ďARBITRATION AND WAIVER OF JURY TRIALĒ), and I could copy/paste more, but the point is archboston.org has already given up the game. The web is not a conversation, itís a business. All the members can move somewhere else, but the issues concerning the recent ownership/assignment change about the transfer from Briv to whomever will follow the community where ever it goes.
Why would this be the case? Yes, the new domain and site will be registered in someone's name. Some people are more trustworthy than others. What briv did here is not ordinary.

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Originally Posted by Wonk View Post
It would be nice to get some more transparency from the new ownership, like a promise to ask posters if itís okay to use a photo or text for other purposes on archboston.org, but the Terms and Conditions of the site quoted by Justin7 are ridiculously user vs owner tilted, in no way terminate copyright, and are solely designed to legally protect the ICANN assigned individual from A) lawsuits from users claiming copyright infringement from some random who copy/pasted content from a public website, or B) lawsuits from randoms who copy/pasted from a poster.
Emphasis mine. To state that terms claiming a "permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content" and the right change the terms at any time without notice are "user vs owner tilted" seems to show a bias that makes me question why you suddenly decided to start posting here. These terms would be consumer hostile for a business and are frankly absurd for a community. They would likely not even hold up in court.

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Originally Posted by Wonk View Post
Itís not about the software, or the platform, or the ease of moving to something else. If you donít want your stuff copy/pasted from a public website, even behind a paywall or login requirement, donít post stuff.
Again, the web is many things. It hosts millions of copyrighted works from books to music to film to you name it. Yes, these things can all be illegally copied, but the question we're asking here is if Edward and Chart communications should have the legal right to use the works of archBoston's posters. If Edward is advertising for some development and decides to use Beeline's photos, should he be allowed to do so without further consent or compensation? The terms of his other sites would allow this. In my opinion that in not tolerable.

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Originally Posted by Wonk View Post
I vote to give the new owner a chance. We can always move on.
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Jusin7 is wrong.

But I agree that moving the database to another platform is trivial.

Justin7, I think incorrectly, assumes that the community is the database. It is not.
Say what now? Please don't try to tell people what I think. I've never stated anything remotely to this effect. It doesn't even make sense.

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Originally Posted by Wonk View Post
I'm an older, and have been thru all the battles.

Don't post to any site, including archboston.org, if you have concerns about copyright.

I still vote to stay at archboston.org.
Olders can learn new things, Wonk, but a statement like this makes it seem like you're unwilling.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:25 AM   #162
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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He doesn't want to pick at random so he asked for suggestions. We gave them to him. It's that simple. Now he has to consider the suggestions and ask others for advice. What he said just now is not inconsistent with the first post.
Understood, Data, but I question why people are ok with a business owner from Toronto making these decisions rather than the community itself. This whole situation is bizarre.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:10 PM   #163
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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I question why people are ok with a business owner from Toronto making these decisions rather than the community itself. This whole situation is bizarre.
Because he's a guy who has demonstrated he has extensive experience in running sites exactly like archBoston for other cities.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:44 PM   #164
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
Because he's a guy who has demonstrated he has extensive experience in running sites exactly like archBoston for other cities.
Small tweak: he has extensive experience building sites like archBoston in other cities. He hasn't taken one over before that I'm aware of. When choosing mods, for instance, he's always known the potential candidates as community members, not just as applicants or prospects.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:21 PM   #165
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
Small tweak: he has extensive experience building sites like archBoston in other cities. He hasn't taken one over before that I'm aware of. When choosing mods, for instance, he's always known the potential candidates as community members, not just as applicants or prospects.
Other than (admittedly alleged) personal issues keeping him away from the site for a few days, he does seem to have been reaching out to community members here.

I'm more concerned with what potential rules will be put in place. I feel like this site has flourished under minimal moderation for a while now (other than Rifle). The "nobody new can come in" issue seems separate from day-to-day active moderation of threads/removing posts.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:27 PM   #166
SkyriseCities
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Let me get to the photo issue. We've never sold a photo in the 17 years that I've run UT. The photos belong to the members. The occasional request for a photo has been referred to the member in question. The same will happen here.

We do however use photos from the forum on the UT news pages (with forum member credit).

Here's a sample: https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2019/06...r-wharf-condos

Never had an issue with this on UT. And since there's no "news" page on aB there's no issue here. Having said that adding a news page sometime down the road is a possibility.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #167
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
With that said, thank you Ed for your response. I'm sympathetic to IRL issues, and I hope you're doing well.

You say you aren't familiar enough to "just start choosing moderators randomly." That's inconsistent with your first post, when you asked for nominations. That change in approach feels and awful lot like you don't trust the people here.

We had a slate of mods. I suspect you've received that same slate from many people, and yet you've chosen to cut the nomination process and wait until you're "familiar" enough to make the decision unilaterally. I'd urge you to reconsider, not least because one popular choice has already made it clear he won't accept a unilateral offer from you.
.
Look back at this thread. One person suggested a couple of members. Another said no to them and made alternate suggestions. Its going to take a little time to figure it out. Sorry about that.

And considering how long this place has run on vapors surely a little while longer isn't going to be a major issue.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:53 PM   #168
SkyriseCities
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
I think itís pretty clear that most of the regular posters would migrate somewhere else if that became a possibility/necessity. I wouldnít discount the collective value of what these folks/we contribute. Boston already has Buildup and Curbed, so thereís not really a market for a third commercially-driven, real estate/development-oriented website in this cityÖ Which is what would be left if most of the regulars here found another place to converse.
This is interesting to me. UrbanToronto has a very strong audience both in raw numbers and in influence. No reason aB couldn't do the same if it didn't look like something run from some kid's bedroom. I've had major developers tell me they've decided to spend more on architecture because they were tired of the negative comments coming from the UT forum. Having the comments show up high in google searches certainly helped our cause. aB could be much more but needs resources to become something professional. And this can be accomplished without muzzling the discussion in the forum (beyond the obvious sexist, racist etc.)

There is room in Boston for something like UT.

By the way Curbed came to Toronto and left. They couldn't compete.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:18 PM   #169
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Curbed sucks. I appreciate the responses.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:58 PM   #170
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by SkyriseCities View Post
And considering how long this place has run on vapors surely a little while longer isn't going to be a major issue.
Statler had been those vapors, and he's not a moderator anymore.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:17 AM   #171
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

I know this is a minor suggestion in the grand scheme of things, but can we set that ArchBoston Facebook page posting privacy to "members of the group only?" Right now, all posts are public. So if you post in it, everyone you're friends with can see. For a number of reasons that I won't get into, I don't want people on my friend list to know my AB username, content of posts, etc. That's why I never shared my info. Thanks!
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:41 AM   #172
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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I know this is a minor suggestion in the grand scheme of things, but can we set that ArchBoston Facebook page posting privacy to "members of the group only?" Right now, all posts are public. So if you post in it, everyone you're friends with can see. For a number of reasons that I won't get into, I don't want people on my friend list to know my AB username, content of posts, etc. That's why I never shared my info. Thanks!
Hi. I'm not sure who created the group, so they may have different thoughts, but I'm one of the admins and have made the change you've suggested. The group itself is now public, but the posts and member list are not.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #173
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Hi. I'm not sure who created the group, so they may have different thoughts, but I'm one of the admins and have made the change you've suggested. The group itself is now public, but the posts and member list are not.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:06 PM   #174
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Hi guys,

I just spoke with Ed on the phone. First off, Ed assured me he is in this for the long haul and I assured him the same. For now, the two of us are going to work on putting together a plan showing the path forward and steps to: selecting moderators, upgrading the forum to modern, secure software (think no more Viet spam bombs), hosting photos locally and implementing the project database. These things will take some time to fully implement, but we want to lay out a plan in as transparent a fashion as possible.

Also, I felt it was important that we work to answer all concerns about privacy/TOS. I will be compiling a Q&A matrix of all the privacy/TOS questions raised and will work with Ed on addressing them.

I will be the day-to-day community liaison for the time being, as Ed has his own life in Toronto as well. He will be helping with the visioning and implementing the features, but he'll be needing help on the day to day side of moderating and making sure the site is running smoothly.

Best,
-Tim
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:12 PM   #175
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Thanks for the update Data. I'm happy to have you involved in the site's leadership.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #176
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
Hi guys,

I just spoke with Ed on the phone. First off, Ed assured me he is in this for the long haul and I assured him the same. For now, the two of us are going to work on putting together a plan showing the path forward and steps to: selecting moderators, upgrading the forum to modern, secure software (think no more Viet spam bombs), hosting photos locally and implementing the project database. These things will take some time to fully implement, but we want to lay out a plan in as transparent a fashion as possible.

Also, I felt it was important that we work to answer all concerns about privacy/TOS. I will be compiling a Q&A matrix of all the privacy/TOS questions raised and will work with Ed on addressing them.

I will be the day-to-day community liaison for the time being, as Ed has his own life in Toronto as well. He will be helping with the visioning and implementing the features, but he'll be needing help on the day to day side of moderating and making sure the site is running smoothly.

Best,
-Tim
This is excellent news, Tim. Thanks so much for your service to the community! Looking forward to what's coming next.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:52 PM   #177
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Thanks, data. Very good news. Very, very good news. Glad to have you involved now.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:35 AM   #178
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

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Originally Posted by datadyne007 View Post
Hi guys,

I just spoke with Ed on the phone. First off, Ed assured me he is in this for the long haul and I assured him the same. For now, the two of us are going to work on putting together a plan showing the path forward and steps to: selecting moderators, upgrading the forum to modern, secure software (think no more Viet spam bombs), hosting photos locally and implementing the project database. These things will take some time to fully implement, but we want to lay out a plan in as transparent a fashion as possible.

Also, I felt it was important that we work to answer all concerns about privacy/TOS. I will be compiling a Q&A matrix of all the privacy/TOS questions raised and will work with Ed on addressing them.

I will be the day-to-day community liaison for the time being, as Ed has his own life in Toronto as well. He will be helping with the visioning and implementing the features, but he'll be needing help on the day to day side of moderating and making sure the site is running smoothly.

Best,
-Tim
Thanks for the update, Tim. I know you'll be good at this. Will you be compensated for your time?
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:43 PM   #179
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

Thanks Tim

I think we all have some grievances for how this process was handled, but none of it is on Ed. I think we should give Ed a chance.

While he may not have bought the community, he did buy the URL and site setup. It's not worth switching, and we're in a better situation now than we were with Briv being absent.

I'm fine with a for profit form, as long as we still have the free speech component on this site (to an extent, hopefully we can stay on topic and avoid attacks of any kind).
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:13 PM   #180
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Re: archBOSTON Update: A New Dawn

I'm optimistic with dD in the fold.
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