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Old 12-21-2013, 10:29 PM   #941
George_Apley
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

^ I've seen the DTX/State ped tunnel discussed before. Doesn't sound as straightforward as you're suggesting.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:17 AM   #942
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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Would a return to the Spanish solution for Park street be in order?
what's that?
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:18 AM   #943
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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the two new infill stations
besides Assembly Square, what's the other one?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:01 AM   #944
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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^ I've seen the DTX/State ped tunnel discussed before. Doesn't sound as straightforward as you're suggesting.
Busses == its not necessarily straight or always forward -- But compared to all the others -- we are talking a passageway for people which can snake in 3D as required a lot easier than one that has to accommodate subway tracks

The other aspect that makes it potentially easy is it is very short

By taking advantage of basements of buildings for some "bump-outs" -- the Ped Tunnel also offers the potential of an underground nexus for things that commuters might want

It should be a priority and participation by developers should get them some street cred for other things

The old Woolworth's which has been renovated a couple of times is along the way and could host some additional height -- particularly in back where the parking garage is located
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:02 AM   #945
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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besides Assembly Square, what's the other one?
Ron -- a bit too much short hand

on Subway -- Assembly Sq. Orange Line

on Commuter Rail -- New Balance
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:11 AM   #946
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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Ron -- a bit too much short hand

on Subway -- Assembly Sq. Orange Line

on Commuter Rail -- New Balance
Professor Whigh,

You seem convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that we don't see a new Lechmere, Union Square, Washington Street, Gilman Square, Lowell Street, Ball Square, College Ave, Blue Hill Ave Station or Wachusett Station by 2035. Why?
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:17 AM   #947
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I'm not completely sure what federal entitlements have to do with MBTA system expansion, but I'd be willing to bet money SS expansion, GLX, Wachusett, NS drawbridges/platforms, ongoing ADA mods, and several NEC passenger turnout projects get started in the next 20 years.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:40 AM   #948
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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Professor Whigh,

You seem convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that we don't see a new Lechmere, Union Square, Washington Street, Gilman Square, Lowell Street, Ball Square, College Ave, Blue Hill Ave Station or Wachusett Station by 2035. Why?
Bigem -- You misread me -- I said after the stuff already approved for some level of proceeding is proceeded to the end

This the basic GLX to where it's already assumed to terminate will happen circa 2020 my skepticism was extensions to R-16 and things such as Union to Porter

Same is true for extensions to CR that are underway in some fashion

However I don't think that after the Patrick adm is history that there is likely to any further mention of N-S, New Bedford, etc.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:51 AM   #949
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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what's that?
Best explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_solution
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #950
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Is Park St not already a "Spanish Solution" station?
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #951
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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Is Park St not already a "Spanish Solution" station?
No because all platforms are used for loading and unloading simultaneously. Spanish Solution stations create directed passenger flow, and are hence much more efficient at moving the passengers on the platform in constrained space.

Problems at Park Street for a true Spanish Solution for the Red Line is that only the center platform of the Red Line Under is ADA compliant. So you cannot restrict that platform to either boarding or unloading, which you have to do for Spanish Solution to work.

Green Line platforms should also be expanded out under Boston Common more to allow Spanish Solution boarding, unloading (dual side) of all the Green Line platforms.

Park could handle a lot more transfer passengers with real passenger traffic flow, rather than the anarchy that exists today.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:18 AM   #952
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I think you could still have ADA boarding on center platform. Doors open on both sides after a few seconds anyway.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #953
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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I think you could still have ADA boarding on center platform. Doors open on both sides after a few seconds anyway.
You could probably do ADA boarding for doors near the elevator (keeping them open longer).

Spanish Solution trains usually close the exit doors as the entrance doors open, reinforcing the traffic flow direction.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #954
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I think just opening the left-side doors first could change the dynamic. Something simple to experiment with.

The main problem with the Spanish solution that I can see is that the center-Red platform access stairs are kind of small. Definitely could use some kind of extension of the GL/mezz platform, if that is even possible.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:58 PM   #955
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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They come up to a hatch that's well inside the Common. Lots of folks would look unfavorably on the idea of adding any more buildings on the Common.
The emergency exit spits out right here. I don't think another headhouse on the Common is necessarily a blocker. Headhouses can be very small, not much larger footprint than that emergency exit if it's just capping the top of the stairs/escalator with an adjacent elevator. The new Arlington headhouse is about as inocuous as it gets.

I'm just not sure what's modifiable underground. That far end of the RL platforms was already widened once for the 6-car platform extension. You would need to cut stairs into the side platforms. Possibly another set of elevators if regs for all-new construction make that mandatory despite existence of elevators at the other end. There would have to be a small mezzanine directly above connecting all 3 stairwells/escalators, a few Charlie gates, and a much-widened egress all the way to the surface.

That part of the station is far enough away that it isn't structurally underpinning the GL level, but who knows what is load-bearing at that end and whether that small mezzanine can fit above the tunnel roof. It's very much an unknown.

I think they ought to study it and do a perfunctory engineering assessment because the foot traffic flow on the RL level is totally fucked at that station and just can't absorb many more passengers. And there's little if anything else they can do about that other than looking at a far-end entrance straight to the surface. But I suspect the odds are pretty low that's going to be feasible at all.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #956
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

When the Common was all dug up for the lengthening of the platforms the Boston Globe had an editorial suggesting that since the Common was dug up anyway the should also add an additional track to allow for storing dead trains or empty trains to be used at rush hour
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Old 12-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #957
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

Instead of a headhouse on the common, a a better option might be to have a long mezzanine, with entrances across from the statehouse. You would only have to remove one tree (the one that blocks the view of the Statehouse and memorial statue), and perhaps raise the ground a few feet if it's too shallow. This way it would serve tourists as well as Beacon Hill residents.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:24 PM   #958
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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No because all platforms are used for loading and unloading simultaneously. Spanish Solution stations create directed passenger flow, and are hence much more efficient at moving the passengers on the platform in constrained space.

Problems at Park Street for a true Spanish Solution for the Red Line is that only the center platform of the Red Line Under is ADA compliant. So you cannot restrict that platform to either boarding or unloading, which you have to do for Spanish Solution to work.

Green Line platforms should also be expanded out under Boston Common more to allow Spanish Solution boarding, unloading (dual side) of all the Green Line platforms.

Park could handle a lot more transfer passengers with real passenger traffic flow, rather than the anarchy that exists today.
There may be more signs which make the boarding process appear more uniform in Spanish Solution stations, but from my experience there is no actual restriction from passengers using the island platform versus the side one to exit or enter the train. Indeed, I would routinely enter/exit using the island platform at my neighborhood station in Madrid since it was most convenient to the entrance. What the entire T system is lacking, however, is proper uniform and useful signage. That would help tremendously at all of the transfer stations.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:07 AM   #959
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

I have more issues navigating stations here in Boston, where I live, than I do getting around the MTAs sprawling transfer complexes, which I visit maybe 2 times a year tops. Its all sinage, the MTA is great with wayfinding and letting you know exactly where to go, I don't even have to pause, just look up. The T is godaweful. I still take wrong turns at DTX because the sinage sucks so much,
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #960
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Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

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I have more issues navigating stations here in Boston, where I live, than I do getting around the MTAs sprawling transfer complexes, which I visit maybe 2 times a year tops. Its all sinage, the MTA is great with wayfinding and letting you know exactly where to go, I don't even have to pause, just look up. The T is godaweful. I still take wrong turns at DTX because the sinage sucks so much,
I find it easier to navigate the transfer stations in the Moscow or Shanghai metro, than here in Boston, and I am not fluent in either Russian or Mandarin!

Wayfinding on the T is truly horrible.
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