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Old 04-24-2019, 09:07 PM   #561
JohnAKeith
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I think you're talking about SF and NYC with your comment about filthy streets and mediocre schools, but about Boston, the reason you don't see the property tax revenue having any sort of effect is that the money raised on new construction is an ink spot in the city's annual budget.

The city has been getting about $50 million a year during the past few years from new construction. That's on a $3 billion budget. So, 1.6% in new funds every year, if Alexa calculated it correctly.

$50 million in new construction; $40 million by way of tax increases (limited to 2.5%) and you're around $90-$100 million in additional funds, per year (in a good year, which we've had lately, where property values are increasing).

$100 million / $3 billion is 3.3% increase in revenue per year, from which comes the money to pay new collective bargaining agreements and rising health / insurance costs.

So, there's very little money to go to new initiatives.

Also, Boston schools is a more complex issue than simply spending more money.


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An alternative perspective for debate: The quickly escalating price in the Seaport is attracting international and domestic investors to Boston who want to put their money in real estate and flip it in a few years. Previously, they would have overlooked Boston and focused on NYC and the Bay Area.

The Seaport is screwing over other parts of the city

Also, I dont understand the eternal optimism with things like "reaping the property taxes as on-going returns on the investments made in the area. The city (or is it the state?) also gets to swell up its affordable housing fund via the payments and concessions made to that fund"

Look at the incredible amount of wealth in NYC and SF. $100million dollar homes, record office prices, sky high commercial rents.

All, presumably, accompanied by enormous tax generation.

And yet the streets are filthy, the transit systems are collapsing, the libraries have shorter hours than most suburbs, the schools are below average, and the police departments are embarrassments.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:33 PM   #562
Beton Brut
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

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We should be so lucky if Suffolk Downs turns out similar.
John, I think that Suffolk Downs will be measurably better and very different from the Seaport. That's because people from surrounding neighborhoods are actively engaged with HYM's development team and the BPDA process. No one actually advocated for "better" in the Seaport so we got a containment area for oppressive and anonymous consumerism, piss-poor public transportation, and no discernible plan for climate resilience.

Lydia has thus far proven to be a great advocate for her constituents and our neighborhood's future. Her ideas around development are a lot more nuanced than your post suggests.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:43 AM   #563
JANAM
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

[quote=Beton Brut;346306]John, I think that Suffolk Downs will be measurably better and very different from the Seaport. That's because people from surrounding neighborhoods are actively engaged with HYM's development team and the BPDA process. No one actually advocated for "better" in the Seaport so we got a containment area for oppressive and anonymous consumerism, piss-poor public transportation, and no discernible plan for climate resilience.

BB, I think that's a little unfair to the Seaport process, there were many South Boston and Fort Point residents actively involved at all stages of planning. Nobody has been more involved than Fort Pointer (I forget his name on here).

There is only so much that can be done when economic and other forces take over.

I certainly hope that you are successful at Suffolk Downs!
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:06 AM   #564
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I find it curious why people are comparing the Seaport with Suffolk Downs.

One is bookended by the largest convention center in NE and the largest transportation center in NE and is steps away from Downtown.

The other is bookended by abandoned dog and horse tracks and Revere Beach. Downtown isn't steps away.

A better comparison going forward may be between the Suffolk Downs and Assembly Row.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:08 AM   #565
Beton Brut
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

^ Fair point on the Seaport process. I was living out of state during the late 90s when much of that planning took place. With that said, the results we see today suggest the the main goal was profit for the principal land holders (in the case of many parcels, Massport) and for the developers.

You may recall that I was part of the organized opposition to the casino plan at Suffolk Downs. The opportunity to put that land to better and higher use is predicated on years of work by many people. HYM’s current plan is in many ways consistent with what I’d envisioned. My concerns are with the socioeconomic impact and capacity of the road and transit infrastructure. I remain confident that we’ll get it right; your well-wishes are appreciated.

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I find it curious why people are comparing the Seaport with Suffolk Downs.
Wild-ass guess: scale of the site, scale of the proposed buildings, scale of the proponents’ investment.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:57 AM   #566
JumboBuc
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
I find it curious why people are comparing the Seaport with Suffolk Downs.

One is bookended by the largest convention center in NE and the largest transportation center in NE and is steps away from Downtown.

The other is bookended by abandoned dog and horse tracks and Revere Beach. Downtown isn't steps away.

A better comparison going forward may be between the Suffolk Downs and Assembly Row.
Yes, this. The Seaport is basically downtown. Suffolk Downs is distinctly not.

There is a zero percent chance you will see big four accounting firms or Global 50 law firms filling up offices at Suffolk Downs. They were among the first tenants to fill up Seaport Square. The same likely goes for tech firms like Amazon. You also won't see $2000/sf condos being sold at Suffolk Downs like you see in the Seaport.

Assembly Row is a much better benchmark. It is also a new, built-from-scratch development along transit in a multi-family urban residential but not commercial downtown neighborhood. It has lower-profile office tenants than the Seaport, less flashy retail, and expensive-but-not-so-ungodly-so apartments and condos.

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Wild-ass guess: scale of the site, scale of the proposed buildings, scale of the proponents’ investment.
HYM has said that they see Assembly Row as a template.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:31 AM   #567
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

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HYM has said that they see Assembly Row as a template.
I've repeatedly asked Tom O'Brien to stop using Assembly Row as a frame of reference. For a spectrum of reasons, HYM's plans are much better.
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:27 PM   #568
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport





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Old 05-10-2019, 09:13 PM   #569
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Tower #1


















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Old 05-10-2019, 09:47 PM   #570
BeeLine
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Tower #2




















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Old 05-10-2019, 10:10 PM   #571
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Tower #3

















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Old 05-20-2019, 09:04 PM   #572
BeeLine
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

Tower crane has been removed.



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Old 05-21-2019, 12:29 AM   #573
meddlepal
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

One of the better looking developments in the last decade.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:06 PM   #574
jl326
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

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Tower crane has been removed.

6MPH?!? I don't think I've ever noticed that sign before..
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:51 PM   #575
Czervik.Construction
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

^^^^ Good catch. I wonder if it is 6mph, because 6mph is approximately 10 km/h.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:09 PM   #576
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

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^^^^ Good catch. I wonder if it is 6mph, because 6mph is approximately 10 km/h.
I'm pretty sure that sign is for the Silver Line... that vantage is pretty close to the catenary wire hook-up site.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:03 AM   #577
HarvardP
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

This project really looks great. Question, though: Where are they locating the mandated more-affordable housing stemming from this project? I know they can move it off-site if they beef up the number of units, right?
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:54 AM   #578
falcon42
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

That's an SL sign. They have them in all the tunnels.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:12 AM   #579
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:58 AM   #580
awood91
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Re: Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

I am impressed that this was built all in one phase. Has anyone heard any sales figures?
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