archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Development Projects

Development Projects New urban and/or architectural developments in Boston metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-08-2019, 10:15 AM   #181
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The Fenway
Posts: 1,936
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfen View Post
I clearly haven't been around for a few years, and this thread is the perfect example of why.

Have you seen FSG's CD/bid set? Are you a structural expert who can warrant this is "two separate projects?" Perhaps you're an engineer who knows the MEP are "two separate projects."

C'mon, this is an incredibly complicated build involving at least three existing structures (as described in the PNF), all heavily-modified over time, with compressed deadlines to phase pieces in during off-season, all on a tight construction site.
Look at the PNF. There is a sizable "existing" section of the park to remain between the theater and the bleacher changes. The diagrams in the PNF even color code the theater and the "Improvements" differently, separated by "existing" and "to remain" components. Meanwhile, the bleacher changes don't even get a color code.



You don't have to have access to this project's specific structural documents and bid set to see there is no possible way by which the theater's construction could possibly hinge on the bleacher changes.

Might the "Improvements" be more complicated to implement without changing the bleachers? Yes, perhaps. But that isn't the theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfen View Post
In my opinion, FSG has gone above and beyond demonstrating their committment to Fenway Park so I gotta trust they know what they're doing here.
I agree that FSG has been a great steward of the Park so far. But that doesn't mean we should have blind faith in them and rubber stamp each proposed change without giving it any second thought or critical analysis. See, for example, the way they grabbed rights to Jersey St (or, at the time, "Yawkey Way") from the City for a song.

And as far as I can tell, FSG themselves have never claimed that the bleacher changes are necessary for the theater project to proceed. Their documents pretty clearly spell out "Fenway Park Improvements" (including the bleacher changes) to be done by spring 2020 and then the "Fenway Theater" to be done by summer/fall 2021.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 09:05 PM   #182
kingofsheeba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Charlestown
Posts: 285
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBuc View Post
Look at the PNF. There is a sizable "existing" section of the park to remain between the theater and the bleacher changes. The diagrams in the PNF even color code the theater and the "Improvements" differently, separated by "existing" and "to remain" components. Meanwhile, the bleacher changes don't even get a color code.



You don't have to have access to this project's specific structural documents and bid set to see there is no possible way by which the theater's construction could possibly hinge on the bleacher changes.

Might the "Improvements" be more complicated to implement without changing the bleachers? Yes, perhaps. But that isn't the theater.



I agree that FSG has been a great steward of the Park so far. But that doesn't mean we should have blind faith in them and rubber stamp each proposed change without giving it any second thought or critical analysis. See, for example, the way they grabbed rights to Jersey St (or, at the time, "Yawkey Way") from the City for a song.

And as far as I can tell, FSG themselves have never claimed that the bleacher changes are necessary for the theater project to proceed. Their documents pretty clearly spell out "Fenway Park Improvements" (including the bleacher changes) to be done by spring 2020 and then the "Fenway Theater" to be done by summer/fall 2021.
Did someone hack into your account? I'm being serious. Because I've never seen someone on this board so hung up over bleacher seat modifications. I'm just befuddled. I'd expect this from Ned what's-his-name from a few years back, but not from you. Sorry, but you sound like a concerned neighbor who goes to these meetings to voice your displeasure over shadows.

I get that you have an opinion and the Bleachers are probably going to be impacted in some fashion. But what are you trying to prove? The Fenway of 1967 doesn't exist. Sometimes, a ballpark has to keep up with the Joneses.

And yes, we should have blind faith in them. Because in any other city, a dump like Fenway would've been torn down. But JH and co. have worked wonders to make it a somewhat pleasurable experience. Is it expensive? Sure. But as I mentioned earlier, it's all part of the upkeep.
kingofsheeba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 10:14 PM   #183
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The Fenway
Posts: 1,936
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofsheeba View Post
Did someone hack into your account? I'm being serious. Because I've never seen someone on this board so hung up over bleacher seat modifications. I'm just befuddled. I'd expect this from Ned what's-his-name from a few years back, but not from you. Sorry, but you sound like a concerned neighbor who goes to these meetings to voice your displeasure over shadows.

I get that you have an opinion and the Bleachers are probably going to be impacted in some fashion. But what are you trying to prove? The Fenway of 1967 doesn't exist. Sometimes, a ballpark has to keep up with the Joneses.

And yes, we should have blind faith in them. Because in any other city, a dump like Fenway would've been torn down. But JH and co. have worked wonders to make it a somewhat pleasurable experience. Is it expensive? Sure. But as I mentioned earlier, it's all part of the upkeep.
Nah man, still me. Everybody has a heterogeneous set of things they care about. Mine includes all the things I usually post about on this board, a bunch of other stuff that is completely unrelated from anything that'll ever make its way onto aB, and not eliminating the upper bleachers at Fenway Park. There are a lot of thoughts behind my feelings on this, but part of it is probably rooted in my view that Fenway Park is in so many ways representative of this city as a whole and I see the removal of the most "blue collar" part of Fenway in order to make room for a lower-density higher-priced "Improvement" as a microcosm of much wider society-level displacement trends.

That being said, scroll back through the 180 posts up until today and you'll see that maybe 5 of them are me saying anything about the bleachers. Yes, for me that's a crazy rant but for others that's a quiet Tuesday afternoon. And one of the reasons I've gotten more worked up about this than usual is that so many of the takes I've been responding to are just so damn wrong. That's not me passing a subjective opinion, it's just fact. If you're okay with tearing out the upper bleachers to put in more expensive table seating at a lower density, then okay, fine, we disagree. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not going to convince you to change your mind, but at least you acknowledge what's happening. But if you claim that removing the upper bleachers is somehow an absolute prerequisite of building a theater behind the Park (a theater that I totally support) or that removing the upper bleachers is somehow related to "upkeep" of the Park then you're just plain wrong. And if you believe that "blind faith" in literally anyone is warranted, then I don't know what to say to you.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 12:35 PM   #184
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,615
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

New BCDC with design revisions, no mention of the bleachers.

http://www.bostonplans.org/documents...et)-bcdc-p-(2)
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2019, 06:06 PM   #185
kingofsheeba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Charlestown
Posts: 285
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
New BCDC with design revisions, no mention of the bleachers.

http://www.bostonplans.org/documents...et)-bcdc-p-(2)
I don't think that means that the bleachers are being left alone.

Also, I'm not seeing any revisions in the renders.
kingofsheeba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019, 07:41 AM   #186
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,615
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofsheeba View Post
I don't think that means that the bleachers are being left alone.

Also, I'm not seeing any revisions in the renders.
They show the versioning of the renders in the presentation itself - it's a series of images. Also, I don't think they're leaving the bleachers alone, I just didn't want people to think there was an update if there wasn't one.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2019, 12:25 PM   #187
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,615
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

DPIR:

http://www.bostonplans.org/documents...t-impact-repor

First detailed renders I've seen of the Fenway Park improvements half of the project. Still don't see how this is anything but a middle finger to less-than-wealthy Red Sox fans...

First mention I've seen of alternate use proposals for the site. Among the three, I think they picked the right one. Quadruple down on Lansdowne as a four-season entertainment hub.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2019, 12:40 PM   #188
SlothofDespond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 128
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibria View Post
DPIR:

http://www.bostonplans.org/documents...t-impact-repor

First detailed renders I've seen of the Fenway Park improvements half of the project. Still don't see how this is anything but a middle finger to less-than-wealthy Red Sox fans...

First mention I've seen of alternate use proposals for the site. Among the three, I think they picked the right one. Quadruple down on Lansdowne as a four-season entertainment hub.
C'mon. They're getting rid of about 5 rows of seats that are a mile from the diamond. Fenway has tons of terrible seats, including these, and upgrading them to tables along with building in additional concession and bathroom space is a nice improvement to the park.

There's absolutely an argument that baseball is generally becoming a rich fan's sport (and, sadly, older fan's sport) as parks become more expensive to attend games at, but removal of a few rows of the bleachers isn't some major targeted shot at baseball's light-walleted fans.
SlothofDespond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2019, 08:50 PM   #189
kingofsheeba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Charlestown
Posts: 285
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlothofDespond View Post
C'mon. They're getting rid of about 5 rows of seats that are a mile from the diamond. Fenway has tons of terrible seats, including these, and upgrading them to tables along with building in additional concession and bathroom space is a nice improvement to the park.

There's absolutely an argument that baseball is generally becoming a rich fan's sport (and, sadly, older fan's sport) as parks become more expensive to attend games at, but removal of a few rows of the bleachers isn't some major targeted shot at baseball's light-walleted fans.
This. So much this.
kingofsheeba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM   #190
Suffolk 83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South End
Posts: 2,108
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

User name checks out
Suffolk 83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:20 AM   #191
Equilibria
Senior Member
 
Equilibria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,615
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofsheeba View Post
This. So much this.
Fenway is already not a huge venue. They are removing $10 seats and building a high-rent party venue. I stand by my observation. If the seats are full (and they often are) they aren't useless.
Equilibria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM   #192
Coyote137
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Jamaica Plain
Posts: 680
Send a message via AIM to Coyote137
Re: Fenway Theater | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

Gotta go with Equilibria on this. It's overall a loss for people who would like to see the Sox in person without breaking the bank.
__________________
All opinions expressed in this post represent the views of your employer.
Coyote137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fenway Center (One Kenmore) | Turnpike PARCEL 7, Beacon Street | Fenway Jasonik Development Projects 1226 06-14-2019 11:03 AM
The Harlo (née Skanska Fenway Project (Burger King))| 1350 Boylston Street | Fenway stellarfun Development Projects 549 09-12-2018 09:25 PM
The Viridian (Fenway McDonald's) | 1282 Boylston Street | Fenway Mike Development Projects 364 09-15-2015 01:07 PM
Fenway HoJo's Redevelopment | 1271 Boylston Street | Fenway palindrome Development Projects 180 08-07-2015 09:53 PM
Fenway Residence Inn (ACE Tickets) | 121 Brookline Ave | Fenway JohnAKeith Development Projects 167 07-23-2014 07:30 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.