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Old 02-02-2019, 08:47 AM   #661
JeffDowntown
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

I think it is a mistake that the APM is not a bi-directional full loop.

With the BL and Economy Parking always at a tail end, Terminals A and B are highly disadvantaged in transit and cheap parking access. And Terminal E is disadvantaged for rental car access. APM in a full loop with vehicles running in both directions make a lot for sense to maximize usage for all terminals.
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Old 02-02-2019, 08:58 AM   #662
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
I think it is a mistake that the APM is not a bi-directional full loop.

With the BL and Economy Parking always at a tail end, Terminals A and B are highly disadvantaged in transit and cheap parking access. And Terminal E is disadvantaged for rental car access. APM in a full loop with vehicles running in both directions make a lot for sense to maximize usage for all terminals.
If it were a loop it would be the same number of stops from Blue to A going either direction and would actually be one extra to reach B. I think a loop is not really helpful here.

Also, having transit riders on one end and car users on the other provides some natural load balancing.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:13 AM   #663
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Originally Posted by lexicon506 View Post
In addition to what Equilibria said, I believe the plan is to relocate the ferry terminal for downtown/Hingham/Hull/(new Seaport route?), which should also make the ferry a much more attractive option.
APM at Logan Airport by Derek Shooster, on Flickr

Moving the Water Transportation next to that proposed Intermodal Transportation Center would not only be a boon to ridership from Logan, but also probably an increase among residents of Jeffries Point in East Boston. The ferry terminal now is impractically far away from where Eastie residents would walk/bike to. It'll probably be better organization for water taxi service and the Wynn Encore water shuttle as well!

All that said, I bet it'll be an environmental nightmare (i.e. NEPA and MEPA) to move water transportation service there. The area in question has a very big tide differential.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:04 PM   #664
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Does anyone feel that the APM will make the Blue Line more attractive for people to get to/from Logan?
Not if it requires a fare like pretty much every other airport-transit APM connection in the country. JFk and Newark charge $5.50 btw.

Does anyone know if it will?
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:20 PM   #665
millerm277
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Not if it requires a fare like pretty much every other airport-transit APM connection in the country. JFk and Newark charge $5.50 btw.

Does anyone know if it will?
The proposed design makes charging that impossible, so it appears that is not the intention.

To elaborate:

- The transit connection point is the same stop as the economy garage, so you can't charge the fare at the point of getting into the APM unless you were also going to charge the economy garage people. Which you aren't.

- The Airport T stop does not exclusively serve the airport, so you can't add an extra charge to use the fare gates at the Blue Line.

- East Boston is certainly not going to allow their on-foot access to the airport or the airport T stop to be cut off, made inconvenient, or charged extra, so any attempt to charge people at a point going between the Blue Line and the APM will be easily circumvented by whatever routes people from East Boston would take to access either.

---------

I'll also note a large portion of the push for this is to encourage more transit use to the airport and lower the % of car trips. Charging for use of the APM would be the exact opposite of that.

And that the current Blue Line transit connection (shuttle buses) are free would further drive up opposition, as you aren't implementing a new thing that doesn't exist, you're replacing free with a cost.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:24 PM   #666
jass
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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The proposed design makes charging that impossible, so it appears that is not the intention.

To elaborate:

- The transit connection point is the same stop as the economy garage, so you can't charge the fare at the point of getting into the APM unless you were also going to charge the economy garage people. Which you aren't.

- The Airport T stop does not exclusively serve the airport, so you can't add an extra charge to use the fare gates at the Blue Line.

- East Boston is certainly not going to allow their on-foot access to the airport or the airport T stop to be cut off, made inconvenient, or charged extra, so any attempt to charge people at a point going between the Blue Line and the APM will be easily circumvented by whatever routes people from East Boston would take to access either.

---------

I'll also note a large portion of the push for this is to encourage more transit use to the airport and lower the % of car trips. Charging for use of the APM would be the exact opposite of that.

And that the current Blue Line transit connection (shuttle buses) are free would further drive up opposition, as you aren't implementing a new thing that doesn't exist, you're replacing free with a cost.
I think youre right. The key is that the 100% idiotic FAA rules is that you can only use airport money for airport purposes, and they consider parking an airport purpose but a train station (even if only used for the airport) as not an airport purpose.

By combining the blue line stop with the garage stop, they are able to use the airport money.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:40 PM   #667
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

You mean that after all these year, Masspork has finally decided to put in a people Mover?!! Like Ricky would say; This, I gotta see!!
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:21 PM   #668
Equilibria
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Not if it requires a fare like pretty much every other airport-transit APM connection in the country. JFk and Newark charge $5.50 btw.

Does anyone know if it will?
Huh? The NYC airports charge, but SFO, ORD, MIA, and LAX either don't or won't. OAK charges a ton, but that connector was built by BART, not by the airport. The JFK and OAK trains also go well off airport property to reach transit lines miles away.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:26 AM   #669
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Atlanta's airport does not charge a fare for their APM that connects to the rental car facility.

Last edited by mass88; 02-05-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:10 AM   #670
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

I'd imagine that the APM would eliminate the need for a number of the existing buses, which as we all know are free to use.

Getting rid of those buses would represent some major financial savings which would offset the cost of the APM, allowing the APM to potentially be free as well.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:26 AM   #671
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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I'd imagine that the APM would eliminate the need for a number of the existing buses, which as we all know are free to use.

Getting rid of those buses would represent some major financial savings which would offset the cost of the APM, allowing the APM to potentially be free as well.
Not just buses, but drivers. Not sure how the maintenance costs compare, but the operating cost is likely way lower.
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:39 PM   #672
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Nothing new here but first news report I've seen showing what has been said on here re: passenger count:

https://www.bisnow.com/boston/news/c...projects-97348
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:20 AM   #673
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

B/C Connector construction to begin in April:

https://www.massport.com/capitalprog...tal%20Info.pdf
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:42 PM   #674
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Originally Posted by jass View Post
Not if it requires a fare like pretty much every other airport-transit APM connection in the country. JFk and Newark charge $5.50 btw.

Does anyone know if it will?
I have never been to an airport in this country that charges for terminal serving APM. There are APM systems that charge for connection between airport and another, significantly more remote destination, such as the AirTrain at JFK. But Dallas, Atlanta, Oralndo, just to name a few do not have a charge for in airport transportation, which is what this proposal would be.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #675
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Newark Charges $5.50 to get on the monorail from the NEC train station...which I think ends up applying only to Amtrak passengers, since scanning your NJTransit pass is supposed to get you in (I didn't understand this at the time, and so paid the $5.50 despite having my NJT ticket)

---
It would be a really, really good thing if the intermodal stop included an easy way to get to the water modes.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:12 AM   #676
jass
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Newark Charges $5.50 to get on the monorail from the NEC train station...which I think ends up applying only to Amtrak passengers, since scanning your NJTransit pass is supposed to get you in (I didn't understand this at the time, and so paid the $5.50 despite having my NJT ticket)

---
It would be a really, really good thing if the intermodal stop included an easy way to get to the water modes.
If you buy a NJT ticket with "EWR" as your destination, the $5.50 fee is included. Thats why the ticket costs $5.50 more than if you buy Newark Penn, which is in the same travel zone.

The machines sell monorail tickets for folks who try and avoid the fee by buying Newark Penn tickets and then cant get past the fare gates.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:51 PM   #677
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

Uber and Lyft clogging San Francisco Airport. Worse than taxis, because they're loitering at the curb.

Average of 27,500 pickups and dropoffs every day.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/philm...p?t=60bbc18bea
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:01 AM   #678
JeffDowntown
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

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Uber and Lyft clogging San Francisco Airport. Worse than taxis, because they're loitering at the curb.

Average of 27,500 pickups and dropoffs every day.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/philm...p?t=60bbc18bea
This can be fixed: airport car entry fee and drop zone controls. SFO is just whiffing on their admin responsibility.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:10 PM   #679
jass
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

I was in Jordan recently, and all vehicles entering airport property had to get a ticket (instead of just those entering the garage)
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:33 PM   #680
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Re: Logan Airport Capital Projects

SFO (and OAK) have a $6 surcharge on all BART trips. That makes it ~$11 to get to downtown SF, and ~$15 to get to Oakland, from SFO; from OAK it's not much less. And BART wonders why they're lagging on ridership on the airport extensions.
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