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Old 01-10-2019, 10:00 AM   #3321
TallIsGood
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by FK4 View Post
Uh dude... itís not about ďentitlementĒ but about the law, which says bikes can use a full lane. Pedestrians arenít ďentitledď to use a bike lane when there is a sidewalk right next to it; while thatís not illegal, itís stupid and rude. Nor are bikes allowed on sidewalks in many places (such as Cambridge, and that IS the law). You sound like somebody with some sort of car versus bike axe to grind.

Transportation related behaviors in Boston generally need more regulating, because people drive, bike, and walk more inconsiderately than any city I have ever visited. Thatís a whole different discussion, but other than being constitutionally against bikes I donít see what gets your hackles up about demanding that peds and bikes actually be segregated in places where the government spent millions to design parallel paths. Jeez.
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:23 AM   #3322
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by TallIsGood View Post
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
When there is a properly designed bike lane without any vehicular obstruction (no delivery vehicles, no ride sharing pick up/drop off, no illegally parked cars, and wide enough to prevent being doored, most cyclists will stay in the bike lane except to pass other, slower moving bikes. Give us space to pass, and we'll stay out of the other lane completely.

Where are these lanes that make it possible to never enter the so-called car lane? Sure, there are a few here and there, usually running for a hundred yards or so, no more. Contrast that with sidewalks, which are ubiquitous in Boston. Pedestrians do not have a usage requirement to be in the street or in a designated off street bike path. They always have adequate facilities. Now if you want to talk about street crossings, I'll be the first to argue that Boston doesn't do enough for pedestrians, but I have never once seen a pedestrian in a bike path because there is no alternative option for them to conveniently walk safely.

Your false equivalence is rejected.

Last edited by HenryAlan; 01-10-2019 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:54 AM   #3323
jass
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by shmessy View Post
Remedial Life Skills 101; Progression occurs in the direction of the movement.

As has been shown in this thread, you are the only one having trouble with that.......For the sake of innocent lives, please don't drive.

But if you someday do, you will see things like this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop...w=1517&bih=730

and this:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.x92P4tN3tJc

You're welcome.

.
You are completely missing the point.

Those standards were developed for 10 foot high text to be read by traffic moving at 60mph.

So you really only see one word at a time.



LANE





ENDS






MERGE






RIGHT



In lower speed areas, the same intention applies because stopped traffic can be blocking some of the signage so you again see it in the order of movement.


But it makes zero sense on bike facilities with 3 foot high text set up like a book when you can see the entire phrase at once, and where bikes do not block text.

There is no point in applying highway standards to a bike facility. Bikes are not trucks.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:47 AM   #3324
FK4
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by TallIsGood View Post
And it literally says Yield to Peds. Cyclists are entitled. So why canít cyclists stay in bike lane vs full traffic lane? Same argument you are making.
Some cyclists are entitled. See my previous post. So are drivers and peds. Nobody follows the rules in Boston and nobody enforces them; the result is rudeness, inconsiderate behavior and chaos to an extreme. That's not a hyperbole, I've lived and been to many other cities and never seen anything like the situation we have here.

And yes, some cyclists are annoying and entitled. But in many cases, there is actually a need to occupy the full lane to bike safely. There's polite ways of doing this and rude ways, but some drivers will never care one way or another and flip out regardless.

Lastly, that's NOT the same argument I'm making. Yielding to peds at a crossing is different than walking right down the bike lane playing on your phone when there's a sidewalk right next to you.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:37 PM   #3325
fattony
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Re: Biking in Boston

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
You are completely missing the point.

Those standards were developed for 10 foot high text to be read by traffic moving at 60mph.

So you really only see one word at a time.



LANE





ENDS






MERGE






RIGHT



In lower speed areas, the same intention applies because stopped traffic can be blocking some of the signage so you again see it in the order of movement.


But it makes zero sense on bike facilities with 3 foot high text set up like a book when you can see the entire phrase at once, and where bikes do not block text.

There is no point in applying highway standards to a bike facility. Bikes are not trucks.
I'm sorry you feel the law and the official road marking guidelines don't make sense. Write your congressman. In the meantime, do you think you can dispense with the threadshit?

Thanks,
Everyone
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:53 PM   #3326
jass
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by fattony View Post
I'm sorry you feel the law and the official road marking guidelines don't make sense. Write your congressman. In the meantime, do you think you can dispense with the threadshit?
It's not the law. Hence the problem. It is engineer discretion.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:01 PM   #3327
JumboBuc
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by jass View Post
It's not the law. Hence the problem. It is engineer discretion.
Right. Boston has both this and this.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:01 PM   #3328
cden4
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Re: Biking in Boston

I love the new separated bike lanes through the Casey Arborway project, but I think they really screwed up the transitions at the intersections. Instead of keeping peds and bikes separate with clear crossing points, they just kind of threw up their hands and put in these weird mixing zones. But they kept the ped and bike crossings separate as I would expect. It's just bizarre.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:12 PM   #3329
Randomgear
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Re: Biking in Boston

RE Casey mixing zones: MassDOT decided to meet partway between a protected intersection like arrangement (advocated by BCU) and the mixing zones as done in the remainder of the SWCP path. It's awkward, but by and large its setup to slow cyclists down where people on foot and bikes meet.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:02 PM   #3330
sm89
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Re: Biking in Boston

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Originally Posted by Randomgear View Post
RE Casey mixing zones: MassDOT decided to meet partway between a protected intersection like arrangement (advocated by BCU) and the mixing zones as done in the remainder of the SWCP path. It's awkward, but by and large its setup to slow cyclists down where people on foot and bikes meet.
The mixing zones along the SWC don't force pedestrians and cyclists to cross over each other's paths at every intersection. On the new Arborway, you have the bike lane along the roadway and then the sidewalk outside of that. At the intersections, they force the two routes to weave so that the pedestrian route is closest to the roadway and then on the other side they switch back. It's unclear why they decided to introduce additional conflict points. The shortest and most convenient route is for both pedestrians and cyclists to just go straight and use the wrong ramps and crossings and that's actually what they're doing.

https://goo.gl/maps/QSTPNDqCLJT2
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:38 PM   #3331
HenryAlan
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Re: Biking in Boston

Interesting -- I haven't ridden on the Morton St. section yet, so I can't really comment on the configuration there, but most of the sections I have ridden do have the pedestrian path between the street and the bike path. That is the configuration approaching the South/Washington/Arborway intersection, for example. And at all four corners everybody does just go straight without crossing anybody else's path (unless turning).
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