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Old 01-17-2013, 02:32 PM   #41
TheRifleman
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Rifleman, I still do not understand what alternative you would prefer today, in 2013.
Ron I don't have an alternative scenario. Just the idea of the street access to Causway and the Garden should be more foot traffic friendly. Maybe this will bring the area somewhat together. It's 2013 and the Boston Garden seems disconnected from the city.

1995 (Shawmut Center was built) I really don't understand how the city of Boston or the BRA had no vision or plan for this area? The area is still in limbo if you ask me. I'm not sure what deal Delaware North got for the parcel in return to plan or redevelop the area, or what the city arranged with this private company. Will Delaware North develop sew it all together? This is the question you have to ask yourself.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:39 PM   #42
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Rifleman, what would you want built here instead? I don't understand your objection at all.
New thread, same old shit.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:40 PM   #43
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Good news? I think the entire North Station area looks like a corporate shit show.

The vision for this area sucks

The picture with the old Garden getting knocked down with the elvated Greenline looks better than what is their now. That is how sad this area has evovled.
That picture makes me sad. I loved the atmosphere in front of the old Garden, underneath the Causeway St. El. In many ways, it was probably a good thing to bury the Green Line, but why couldn't the Garden facade have been saved? It could have been the entrance to the new building with towers rising from behind the front wall.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:45 PM   #44
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Re: TD Garden Towers

I'm asking you (mostly Rifleman, but others too) to look forward, not backward. Nobody's going to re-erect the old Garden or the Green Line elevated. We need to look at the site as it is today, and talk about how it can best be built upon now.

If you want lots of people on the streets, an 'urban-form' supermarket and a Target seem like pretty good choices. I'd like to see a hotel component as well.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 PM   #45
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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That picture makes me sad. I loved the atmosphere in front of the old Garden, underneath the Causeway St. El. In many ways, it was probably a good thing to bury the Green Line, but why couldn't the Garden facade have been saved? It could have been the entrance to the new building with towers rising from behind the front wall.
One of my great regrets in life was never having the opportunity to visit the old Boston Garden, even once. (I was 15 and living in Connecticut when the Fleet Center opened).

I've had the chance to look at some of the pictures of the exterior and its relation to Causeway Street. If I had the opportunity to redevelop the site, I would have kept and restored the exterior of the old Garden. I would have gutted virtually the entire interior, save for a small section of balcony seating, which I would have preserved in its place as a museam/historic piece. I would have then reclaimed remainder of the hollowed out building as a grand entrance to North Station/TD Garden, with decorative flooring, numerous kiosks, and shops/restaurants lining the wall areas.

Communters would remain on the main floor and walk toward the current station under the Garden to reach their trains. Meanwhile, Garden patrons would have used escalators and a grand staircase to access the main entrance to Garden (which would be exactly were it is now). Balconies and railings on this level would allow fans/event attendees to mill about and take in the scene below.

And if it worked aestectically, architecturally, I would have restored and hung the old Garden scoreboard, Celtics/Bruins banners from the ceiling.

...but, absent that opportunity, I think a retail, residential, hotel component on this site has huge potential.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #46
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Re: TD Garden Towers

Thanks for the new thread.

This is great news.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #47
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Originally Posted by Ron Newman View Post
I'm asking you (mostly Rifleman, but others too) to look forward, not backward. Nobody's going to re-erect the old Garden or the Green Line elevated. We need to look at the site as it is today, and talk about how it can best be built upon now.

If you want lots of people on the streets, an 'urban-form' supermarket and a Target seem like pretty good choices. I'd like to see a hotel component as well.
I agree with you. My comment was just that we missed an opportunity, not that we shouldn't move forward with this plan. I think these towers, combined with all the retail will hugely improve the neighborhood. This is a very good thing.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:56 PM   #48
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Re: TD Garden Towers

While the old Garden had a great façade, it was also a façade that nobody ever saw, because the Green Line el totally obscured it.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:01 PM   #49
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Re: TD Garden Towers

Whatever -THis isn't going to happen, at least not for a long time - and will likely be much much smaller.

This idea has been bandied about for years - almost a decade now (or more) by delaware north. Just like Nashua Street. Only now they've introduced Target... "GASP!"

In fact, there's another thread with this project already out there.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:05 PM   #50
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Re: TD Garden Towers

Having tenants lined up this time could make the difference. I believe they are already permitted for the height they want.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:09 PM   #51
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Whatever -THis isn't going to happen, at least not for a long time - and will likely be much much smaller.

This idea has been bandied about for years - almost a decade now (or more) by delaware north. Just like Nashua Street. Only now they've introduced Target... "GASP!"

In fact, there's another thread with this project already out there.
I think you've soaked your blanket in the tub too long. It's sopping...
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:13 PM   #52
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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New thread, same old shit.
North Station area = Kenmore Square area
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:27 PM   #53
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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I think you've soaked your blanket in the tub too long. It's sopping...
yeah..so

http://skyscraperguy.yuku.com/reply/...nces#reply-701
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:37 PM   #54
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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great article here.. notice the date.. nothing has changed

http://dailyfreepress.com/2004/01/04/kenmores-future/
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #55
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Re: TD Garden Towers

Other then the awesome rotary in the distance, it appears this will be more active then the NS area even in its hayday, which was mostly industrial and full of the orange and green line el and portals.



As for the trucks, I would imagine a massive part of at least one of the buildings will be a dedicated loading dock, as they are doing with the Fenway Target.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #56
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Re: TD Garden Towers

very impressive picture. notice the tall hotel that was torn down next to north station.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #57
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Originally Posted by TheRifleman View Post
Ron I don't have an alternative scenario. Just the idea of the street access to Causway and the Garden should be more foot traffic friendly. Maybe this will bring the area somewhat together. It's 2013 and the Boston Garden seems disconnected from the city.

1995 (Shawmut Center was built) I really don't understand how the city of Boston or the BRA had no vision or plan for this area? The area is still in limbo if you ask me. I'm not sure what deal Delaware North got for the parcel in return to plan or redevelop the area, or what the city arranged with this private company. Will Delaware North develop sew it all together? This is the question you have to ask yourself.
What a load of crap.

You say you don't have an alternative scenario.

You say there should be more foot traffic.

You say the area seems disconnected from the city.

So now, a proposal is on the table for two 400+ foot towers with retail, hotel and residences that would GREATLY increase foot traffic, integrate with transit underneath via North Station and better connect the area to the city.

....and all you can do is complain???

Seriously, what is the matter with you?
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:26 PM   #58
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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One of my great regrets in life was never having the opportunity to visit the old Boston Garden, even once. (I was 15 and living in Connecticut when the Fleet Center opened)..
It was a dump. The plusses: history; replica of old Madison Square Garden; seats much closer to the action; excellent place to see boxing, wrestling and hockey; art deco exterior and hotel complex. Minus: filthy; wornout electrical and mechanical systems; horrible acoustics; huge number of obstructed view seats.

Saw Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, George Harrison, Boston Whalers, etc. But the best was Bruno Sammartino, Haystack Calhoun, Killer Kowalski and the whole weekend wrestling ticket. That's what the Garden was about. It was a hangout. It was a dump.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:55 PM   #59
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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Minus: filthy; wornout electrical and mechanical systems; horrible acoustics; huge number of obstructed view seats.
Also minus: no elevators, no air conditioning. The latter caused real problems for both Celtics and Bruins during the post-season, and truly was not an acceptable thing to still be dealing with in the 1990s.

Last edited by Ron Newman; 01-17-2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #60
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Re: TD Garden Towers

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1995 (Shawmut Center was built) I really don't understand how the city of Boston or the BRA had no vision or plan for this area? The area is still in limbo if you ask me. I'm not sure what deal Delaware North got for the parcel in return to plan or redevelop the area, or what the city arranged with this private company. Will Delaware North develop sew it all together? This is the question you have to ask yourself.
The vision and plan has been pretty much this from the beginning, right? I thought this is the same project Delaware North has been talking about since before the Garden was ever built. I've always fantasized about somehow working in a replica of the original North Station facade (the pre-Garden train station), with the towers set modestly behind and the big archway leading to the station and arena entrance. This seems fine, though.
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