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Old 11-18-2013, 02:47 PM   #41
datadyne007
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

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Originally Posted by The EGE View Post
There's a several year age gap where a kid is too heavy to carry, but may not be able to handle rush hour crowds very well. A normal (not obese) three-year-old weighs some 32 pounds, which is far too heavy to comfortably carry for more than a few minutes. But that same kid may well have a lot of trouble trying to stay with mom or dad in a crowd full of tall strangers crossing paths and rushing everywhere.
Great point. This is straying off topic, but an important point to make:

There is also the matter of people with physical handicaps or injuries that might not be able to carry a child, no matter how old. I agree that not everyone should be using strollers during rush hour, but there needs to be consideration for those who are in situations beyond their personal control. No matter how much we want this situation of obstructions during the peak to vanish entirely, it will not and we should have subway cars that can accommodate and adapt to any situation with the least impact on riders.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:01 PM   #42
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

I'm just saying too many parents use strollers--obviously if you have a disabled parent, or a grandmother babysitting for the day, there can be exceptions.

With my kids riding the train every day from a young age, they didn't seem phased by rush hour subway travel by the age of three. And again, usually people will surrender a seat (if not, I just manouvered in front of the youngest adult male on the train until he became sufficiently annoyed by my kid's bumping into him and offered his seat). Not ideal, but better than taking up the space of 3 or 4 adults with a mega-stroller.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:24 PM   #43
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

Strollers have been present on transit vehicles for decades. Urban warrior SUV mega-strollers...that's a more recent phenomenon. The sheer fast-increasing numbers of them, their inability to fold as easily as a regular stroller, the obliviousness of the parents to how much space they're taking up. And also how old some of the kids riding in them are...like, elementary school-aged long after it's stopped being practical and just became a lazy chauffeuring crutch by the parents. The excess involved is behavioral on the part of the parents. And not just on the T. Try passing one of those beasts on a sidewalk only wide enough for 2 people. When I used to live in East Somerville I hated crossing the Gilmore Bridge because I'd inevitably see some tactical assault stroller coming in the distance and have to stop and hang precariously over the barrier inches from speeding traffic to let one pass. Often more than once on the same crossing.


At any rate, for all the kvetching about bikes eating up space on the T on any given weekday the strollers, grocery shopping pushcarts, or people carrying gigantic mountain-climbing backpacks easily outnumber bikes 5:1 or worse while taking up as much or more space. We've already been dealing with the inconvenience for years, like it or lump it. Bikes are a small drop in the bucket in reality. The disproportionate attention they get as a potential problem has a lot more to do with attitudes about bikes and hostility therein from some segments of the population. If you're going to complain about bikes boarding subway trains, you can't just conveniently forget the far more numerous space-eaters and the politics of what's necessary accommodation and what's excessive or rude. It's all grouped together.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:18 PM   #44
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

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Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
Strollers have been present on transit vehicles for decades. Urban warrior SUV mega-strollers...that's a more recent phenomenon. The sheer fast-increasing numbers of them, their inability to fold as easily as a regular stroller, the obliviousness of the parents to how much space they're taking up. And also how old some of the kids riding in them are...like, elementary school-aged long after it's stopped being practical and just became a lazy chauffeuring crutch by the parents. The excess involved is behavioral on the part of the parents. And not just on the T. Try passing one of those beasts on a sidewalk only wide enough for 2 people. When I used to live in East Somerville I hated crossing the Gilmore Bridge because I'd inevitably see some tactical assault stroller coming in the distance and have to stop and hang precariously over the barrier inches from speeding traffic to let one pass. Often more than once on the same crossing.


At any rate, for all the kvetching about bikes eating up space on the T on any given weekday the strollers, grocery shopping pushcarts, or people carrying gigantic mountain-climbing backpacks easily outnumber bikes 5:1 or worse while taking up as much or more space. We've already been dealing with the inconvenience for years, like it or lump it. Bikes are a small drop in the bucket in reality. The disproportionate attention they get as a potential problem has a lot more to do with attitudes about bikes and hostility therein from some segments of the population. If you're going to complain about bikes boarding subway trains, you can't just conveniently forget the far more numerous space-eaters and the politics of what's necessary accommodation and what's excessive or rude. It's all grouped together.
F-line that was the point of my post -- Chairs + [The rest] {Bikes, Strollers, Backpacks, Steamer Trunks posing as carry-on luggage, animals, etc.} -- all interfere with the normal passenger flow on the T.

We have to accommodate people in Chairs because of ADA -- all of the Rest need to be accommodative of the vast majority of the T's everyday users -- These everyday T Users are typically un-impaired adult passengers with perhaps some small hand luggage / handbag / shoulder bag / grocery bag/ computer.

The everyday passenger needs to be the priority and of course with extra allowance for people with impairments of various kinds -- the Rest are best accomodated on a space available basis

This essentially means the Rest should be limited at peak periods to few and far between in the core and at the most congested peripheral stops and stations

One possible solution would be taking Red, Blue, Orange 6 car trains and setting-up one car every train or perhaps one every-other train with no seats or 1/2 of the car with no seats and let the Rest populate free space on the "Open Car" -- a bit like Amtrak Acela "Silent Cars" for wheels
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:42 PM   #45
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

^ RL has BigRed cars (seats ripped out) during the peak.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:31 AM   #46
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

Yeah but the thing is, accommodating bikes/strollers/granny carts/whatever doesn't really effect anything but a row of seats. If not occupied by *large object*, people can just stand there, just like they do in the handicapped spaces and doors now. It increases the capacity of the car in general, sort of like a mini big red. I would presume bikes still would be banned at peak, it just would make everyones lives easier when they are not.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:38 AM   #47
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

Whigh, I think that we both agree that storing bikes inside the stations is a bad idea. Yes, they do it in Back Bay Station, but they should really build a secure bike parking area in the bus area on the Clarendon side.
As far as bikes on the subway and commuter rail lines go, I think that keeping bikes off during peak commute times as they do now is a good thing. When I suggested vertical racks inside the cars (commuter rail and subway) I should have said that. During off-peak hours, I think bikes should be encouraged. I've only done it once, last year on my way to catch a commuter train out of North Station, but I missed the connection.
Which reminds me, North Station needs, more than any other location, secure public bike racks. Without proper bike storage, MassDOT's mod shift goals will never be met.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:41 AM   #48
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

Maybe I'm not giving my fellow man enough credit, but I don't think many people will bother to learn what times they can bring their bike on the T. I've seen first hand the confusion the "no bikes during peak" rule causes. It's arbitrarily enforced. Then of course, the GL never allows bikes... sometimes...

Start making too many rules and exceptions to those rules and people stop caring about keeping up.
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Old 12-07-2013, 05:09 PM   #49
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Re: MBTA's Pedal and Park (Secure Bike Parking at Major T Stations)

I visited the new Pedal and Park at Davis Sq. It looked really good and decently patronized. It is just beyond the "bus curb" at the "Porter-side" headhouse that has the dedicated little busway (That serves the 89, 90, 94, 96 and outbound 87 and 88).

My Charlie Card had been registered online, and did, in fact, open the cage on its first use (I had been wanting to use my card successfully before attempting a first bike trip that relied on it). Well-lit, and mostly dry (the floor had little rivulets after recent rain), it seems like a place everyone would want to use. I wonder if it is already full by 8am? Hmmm. If it is a success, they should put one at the other headhouse (on the "Alewife" side that serves only the 87 and 88 inbound).
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