archBOSTON.org

Go Back   archBOSTON.org > Boston's Built Environment > Transit and Infrastructure

Transit and Infrastructure All things T or civilly engineered within Boston Metro.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-2019, 01:01 PM   #761
Vagabond
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Somerville
Posts: 30
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by fattony View Post
Except that the ramp was recently tested and dismissed as non-viable. The merge was deemed unsafe. That dream is over. The SL dream is over.
When did they even start testing it?
Last I can find is that they would start sometime this summer: https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...lver-line-ramp
Vagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #762
ant8904
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 600
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

I have to chime with Vagabond. Last time I heard about this, they manage to finally get them to allow its usuage in a very restricted format. I did not hear about any "failure" or end to the program. Where are y'all getting the information from?
ant8904 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 02:13 PM   #763
whittle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
When did they even start testing it?
Last I can find is that they would start sometime this summer: https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...lver-line-ramp
The testing the testing they referred said that the testing referred to in the article would be necessary for rush hour ramp usage.
whittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 02:19 PM   #764
MjolnirMan
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 24
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
The Fed DOT 2007 evaluation of the Silver Line project includes a map showing the route THEY THOUGHT the bus would be following. Since the Feds paid for a huge chunk of the Silver Line, they should know the expected route. Note where it enters the TWT.



Reference doc:
https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/ft...PORT062507.pdf
Also the fact that the ramp is named "Silver Line Way" on maps.

While the ideal solution to all of this would be to have built the harbor tunnel for the SL correctly in the first place, what about this? Extend the (bus-only) highway onramp to D street across from the Haul Road ramp, and excavate the ramp where that little parking lot is now, to double the ramp distance and allow more merge distance at the highway grade.



You'd have to disconnect the SL1 from electric during boarding at WTC, and skip the Silver Line Way stop outbound, and then there's the minor ramp reconstruction, but I think these would be more than acceptable sacrifices to get to the airport faster.
MjolnirMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 04:01 PM   #765
whittle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by MjolnirMan View Post
Also the fact that the ramp is named "Silver Line Way" on maps.
The state's road inventory labels it with some ramp code.
whittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 07:37 PM   #766
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 328
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by MjolnirMan View Post
Also the fact that the ramp is named "Silver Line Way" on maps.
This is something I hear thrown around endlessly by transit advocates all over but I've never found a reputable source for it. In fact I've never found any source pointing towards this being true.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 07:47 AM   #767
stevebikes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 262
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneijder View Post
Anyone know what happened to the original routing of SL3 down L street? Seems like a no-brainer now with the bus routes down there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jass View Post
Canned due to low ridership
My understanding is the original plan was for this to basically follow the 9 route - City Point, east to P or Farragut, then dedicated lanes on Broadway, then turn to the Seaport at D. The usual suspects killed that and we ended up with this stubby route that no one took because the 7 bus was (at the time) better since it did pickups where people actually lived, as far south as 4th.
stevebikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 09:12 AM   #768
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,809
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
This is something I hear thrown around endlessly by transit advocates all over but I've never found a reputable source for it. In fact I've never found any source pointing towards this being true.
For years it was labeled that way on Google Maps. Sorry I didn't archive copies to allay your skepticism.
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 09:37 AM   #769
Arlington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Medford, MA
Posts: 3,690
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Let me blow your mind: how about we lengthen the ramp and make its slope gentler by taking the little parking lot? I bet the police would be happy to have all their parking in a single chunk.

There's nothing special about today's mid-block access (is there?), that couldn't be moved 200' toward D st and a new curb cut. Move it as far as the turning radius of an articulated bus permits.

That way the Police could totally separately gate their access too.

Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a [right] onto D and a [left] onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.

[Reversed left/right]
__________________
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn

Last edited by Arlington; 07-19-2019 at 02:22 PM.
Arlington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 12:05 PM   #770
whittle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a left onto D and a right onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.
I'm assuming you mixed up left and right?
whittle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 02:23 PM   #771
Arlington
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Medford, MA
Posts: 3,690
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

^ Yes. Fixed.
__________________
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
Arlington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 11:05 PM   #772
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 328
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
For years it was labeled that way on Google Maps. Sorry I didn't archive copies to allay your skepticism.
Anyone can edit Google maps, I've personally renamed roads on Google maps before. I'm talking a real source, something more official than Google maps.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 01:31 AM   #773
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,188
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlington View Post
Let me blow your mind: how about we lengthen the ramp and make its slope gentler by taking the little parking lot? I bet the police would be happy to have all their parking in a single chunk.

There's nothing special about today's mid-block access (is there?), that couldn't be moved 200' toward D st and a new curb cut. Move it as far as the turning radius of an articulated bus permits.

That way the Police could totally separately gate their access too.

Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a [right] onto D and a [left] onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.

[Reversed left/right]
You're going to modify a ramp with a retaining wall like this??? I don't think so.


Here's the only source that matters on ramp merges: AASHTO's Policy on Design Standards. Highly technical because design speed, grade, and stuff you'd have to search elsewhere for in that 1000 page guide like when exactly an accel strip is deemed to have begun all end up factoring in the 'correct' answer. But anyone who wants to take a gander at 'bunking/debunking Ramp-gate by solving this riddle with real math instead of supposition and personal attacks can let 'er rip with these Figures.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 01:22 PM   #774
Charlie_mta
Senior Member
 
Charlie_mta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,394
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

The only solution to make this on ramp comply with merge lane standards is to widen the eastbound tunneled portion for a hundred feet or so where the ramp joins it, which would be a project of Big Dig proportions. However, it is feasible from an engineering standpoint as there are no buildings above that short portion of the tunnel.
Charlie_mta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 08:16 PM   #775
chmeeee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: JP
Posts: 260
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-Line to Dudley View Post
You're going to modify a ramp with a retaining wall like this??? I don't think so.


Here's the only source that matters on ramp merges: AASHTO's Policy on Design Standards. Highly technical because design speed, grade, and stuff you'd have to search elsewhere for in that 1000 page guide like when exactly an accel strip is deemed to have begun all end up factoring in the 'correct' answer. But anyone who wants to take a gander at 'bunking/debunking Ramp-gate by solving this riddle with real math instead of supposition and personal attacks can let 'er rip with these Figures.
Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
chmeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 01:19 AM   #776
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 328
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by chmeeee View Post
Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
Does AASHTO account for articulated dual mode buses though? Because they actually accelerate slower than any other bus in the fleet according to the MBTA. Although I must say it doesn't feel like it as I get flung over my luggage every time that bus gets going.
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 04:39 AM   #777
F-Line to Dudley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,188
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloBostonHi View Post
Does AASHTO account for articulated dual mode buses though? Because they actually accelerate slower than any other bus in the fleet according to the MBTA. Although I must say it doesn't feel like it as I get flung over my luggage every time that bus gets going.
AASHTO standards are flat for vehicle type, so that doesn't matter. The baseline standard accounts for all street-legal vehicles on a limited-access highway. That includes big rigs, but does not include special cases like wide-load transports that require an escort to use the infrastructure. Since this ramp would be restricted to only buses and emergency vehicles, it's not a factor for the very slowest-accelerating trucks accounted for within the design standards. Thus, if MassDOT is worried about padding-over-standard on accel length its concern is only with the midrange of vehicle acceleration not the extremes.
F-Line to Dudley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 09:13 AM   #778
JumboBuc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: The Fenway
Posts: 1,957
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by chmeeee View Post
Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.

I (mistakenly) took the SL to the Airport on Friday. It took more than an hour to get from the platform in South Station to Terminal C. The State Police onramp "detour" alone added 17 minutes, 29 seconds to the trip (I timed it on my phone). I don't know the exact capacity of one of those busses, but given the way people were crammed in shoulder-to-shoulder I'd say at least 24 person-hours were wasted.
JumboBuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 12:00 PM   #779
JeffDowntown
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Cove
Posts: 2,809
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBuc View Post
As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.

I (mistakenly) took the SL to the Airport on Friday. It took more than an hour to get from the platform in South Station to Terminal C. The State Police onramp "detour" alone added 17 minutes, 29 seconds to the trip (I timed it on my phone). I don't know the exact capacity of one of those busses, but given the way people were crammed in shoulder-to-shoulder I'd say at least 24 person-hours were wasted.
The SL1 must make an appearance on one of Dante's Seven Circles of Hell.

The Great and General Court should be required to conduct all transportation related business while riding the SL1.
__________________
Jeff H.
Downtown, South Cove
JeffDowntown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 01:40 PM   #780
HelloBostonHi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 328
Re: MBTA Bus & BRT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboBuc View Post
As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.
And I have never seen an articulated bus using those ramps, much less a slower dual mode articulated bus. Correct me if I'm wrong but those routes are all 40ft buses?
HelloBostonHi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Redesigned MBTA c_combat Design a Better Boston 30 12-19-2013 08:38 PM
MBTA Porn shmessy Transit and Infrastructure 0 04-13-2013 11:57 AM
MBTA Art found5dollar Transit and Infrastructure 10 04-04-2011 06:49 PM
MBTA Forum PaulC Transit and Infrastructure 13 06-17-2009 01:10 AM
The Future MBTA PerfectHandle Transit and Infrastructure 10 03-14-2007 01:40 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.