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Old 01-03-2018, 07:54 PM   #61
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Rutherford Avenue to go on a diet!

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Originally Posted by CSTH View Post
^ and from the tobin to the gilmore bridge and E Cambridge / Kendall (full disclosure: my daily).
If I'm understanding correctly, that makes you a longer distance commuter who does not use any underpass that might exist in any full build scenario.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:18 PM   #62
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Rutherford Avenue to go on a diet!

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Originally Posted by JeffDowntown View Post
Rutherford Avenue is used as an alternative commuting route versus the Leverett Circle Connector, particularly for access to East Cambridge/Kendall and North Station/Government Center areas, from I-93 (Sullivan Square Exit) commuting in/out from the north.
For commuting to East Cambridge / Kendall, I wonder if a ramp up to the Gilmore Bridge from the road leading from I-93 southbound to the Leverett Circle Connector Bridge would be a reasonable solution; I think the main question is whether there end up being queues from Leverett Circle itself that back up far enough to make getting to such a ramp painful. And/or maybe we could add a ramp from that connector road to Inner Belt Road near New Washington St along with a bridge from somewhere near the southernmost part of Inner Belt road to somewhere near Water St. Doing anything about the northbound direction might be harder (the obvious way to do a Gilmore Bridge connection would require a left turn across Gilmore Bridge traffic). But it also looks to me like this is another commuting pattern that does not use any Rutherford underpasses anyway.

And the Sullivan Sq underpass doesn't help those heading to North Station / Government Center from I-93 at points north of the Mystic, either, AFAICT. Maybe the Community College underpass does help those folks a bit.

So is there some good explanation somewhere of what significant traffic flow does use the northbound underpass at Sullivan? And is the southbound underpass at Sullivan believed to be useful for much of anything other than casino / produce center / etc traffic heading onto I-93 southbound? (Surely there aren't enough Haymarket vendors who buy at the Produce Center to justify an underpass just for them?)
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:49 AM   #63
JeffDowntown
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Re: Rutherford Avenue to go on a diet!

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Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
For commuting to East Cambridge / Kendall, I wonder if a ramp up to the Gilmore Bridge from the road leading from I-93 southbound to the Leverett Circle Connector Bridge would be a reasonable solution; I think the main question is whether there end up being queues from Leverett Circle itself that back up far enough to make getting to such a ramp painful. And/or maybe we could add a ramp from that connector road to Inner Belt Road near New Washington St along with a bridge from somewhere near the southernmost part of Inner Belt road to somewhere near Water St. Doing anything about the northbound direction might be harder (the obvious way to do a Gilmore Bridge connection would require a left turn across Gilmore Bridge traffic). But it also looks to me like this is another commuting pattern that does not use any Rutherford underpasses anyway.

And the Sullivan Sq underpass doesn't help those heading to North Station / Government Center from I-93 at points north of the Mystic, either, AFAICT. Maybe the Community College underpass does help those folks a bit.

So is there some good explanation somewhere of what significant traffic flow does use the northbound underpass at Sullivan? And is the southbound underpass at Sullivan believed to be useful for much of anything other than casino / produce center / etc traffic heading onto I-93 southbound? (Surely there aren't enough Haymarket vendors who buy at the Produce Center to justify an underpass just for them?)
Basic traffic management. Of course the underpass helps people coming in from the North off of I-93, because if takes some Route 99 traffic out of the Sullivan Square circle. Less traffic in the circle makes the bad design flow a bit better. (The former flyover helped even more, of course.)
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:57 AM   #64
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Rutherford Avenue to go on a diet!

Yeah, OK, getting other people out of the way does help a bit, but it's not necessarily clear if there are all that many of them.

What do you mean by the former flyover?
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:01 AM   #65
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Sullivan Square

http://www.northeastern.edu/peter.fu...llivan-square/ has a 17 MPH one way signalized loop proposal for Sullivan Sq automobile traffic.

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Old 04-20-2018, 10:28 AM   #66
Joel N. Weber II
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Re: Sullivan Square

If we end up keeping the underpass in both directions at Sullivan Sq, I've gotten thinking about whether we could have a design somewhat inspired by the Diverging Diamond Interchange.

My first thought was that the Rutherford underpass would get treated as the major road, and Main St to Mystic Ave / Maffa Way would be the minor street, and then you'd have to figure out how to integrate Cambridge St with that; you'd potentially build a new bridge over the underpass going from Main St to Mystic Ave.

But if the existing bridges turn out to be in good enough shape to keep using them in a reconfigured fashion, or if refurbishing them is cheaper than building new bridges elsewhere, I think we could probably reuse the existing bridges.

In particular, I'm thinking the northernmost overpass next to West St that currently is used as a U turn for northbound traffic to turn southbound could be reversed, and used for traffic coming from Maffa Way and Cambridge St (via Gardner St) that is heading north to the bridge cross the Mystic; on the east side of the overpass that road would have to be reconfigured to point north instead of pointing south. We'd also want a street that I'm going to call New St for now going from the Gardner St / Maffa Way intersection diagonally across what is currently a parking lot to the Alford St / Mystic Ave intersection.

To minimize the amount of traffic at the Alford St / Mystic Ave intersection, we'd have Mystic River bridge to Mystic Ave traffic take Alford St to West St to Beacham St to Mystic Ave, and Mystic River bridge to Cambridge St traffic would go via Alford St, West St, Beacham St, and Gardner St. That should mean that the only traffic reaching the Alford St / Mystic St intersection would be Cambridge St to Mystic River bridge traffic, Maffa Way to Mystic River bridge traffic, and Mystic River bridge to Main St traffic (and perhaps there's some traffic involving businesses on very local streets that would use that intersection as well that doesn't necessarily quite fall into these categories).

The bridge above the underpass that is currently the natural path from Cambridge St to Main St would need to accommodate westbound traffic; while most eastbound traffic could use the overpass next to Mishawum St (that overpass ought to be reversed in this plan), forcing a double crossing of the track for access to the businesses east of the Sullivan Sq traffic circle and north of the track seems like it would be suboptimal, so two way traffic on that overpass which is roughly 250' north of the track would probably be best.

Northbound traffic on Rutherford which takes the surface route instead of the Sullivan underpass, after crossing the track, currently has to turn right onto the traffic circle; that traffic would at least get the option to turn left for a direct path to Cambridge St, and it would probably make sense to make Maffa Way two way from Alford St to Gardner St to handle trips from Main St and from Rutherford in the vicinity of Bunker Hill Community College going to Mystic Ave; at Gardner St that traffic would turn right onto what seems to be an unnamed road that looks like an extension of Gardner St to get over to Mystic Ave.

Gardner St and its extension would need to be reconfigured to be two way.

I think it's probably possible to make most of the lights function with only two phases in this general design. Cambridge St / Gardner St would have one phase for straight through traffic on Cambridge St in both directions, and a second phase for right turns from Gardner to Cambridge St, left turns from Cambridge St to Gardner St, and a crosswalk across Cambridge St to the east of Gardner St. Maffa Way / Cambridge St / Alford St probably needs three phases, one to allow Cambridge St traffic toward Rutherford southbound (and westbound traffic from Main St to Cambridge St), a second to allow Maffa Way traffic toward Rutherford southbound, and a third to allow traffic from the Mystic River bridge to get to Main St / Mishawum St.

There might be a few other details of the street reconfiguration that would be needed that I'm forgetting to mention here that would be needed to make this overall plan flow smoothly.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:55 AM   #67
JeffDowntown
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Re: Rutherford Avenue to go on a diet!

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Originally Posted by Joel N. Weber II View Post
Yeah, OK, getting other people out of the way does help a bit, but it's not necessarily clear if there are all that many of them.

What do you mean by the former flyover?
Sullivan Square used to have three levels of roadway. IIRC the flyover level funneled traffic coming off 93 or on Broadway over the rotary onto 99 -- it ran right over the current underpass at an upper level.

It was taken down more than a decade ago because it was in danger of collapsing.
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